Dang!
After the problems I had earlier in the year (see http://roverlanders.bc.ca/roverforum/vi ... php?t=2751) and the fix which turned out to be fitting a new fuel cut-off solenoid... it's happened again.
This isn't so much a request for advice, I think I pretty much nailed the technique last time but I've been through every step I took then (with the exception of replacing the solenoid, which still works just fine), and it just won't fire.
I'm more or less just having a moan.
When I'm fit again (just got back out of hospital, so no driving for a couple of weeks and no lifting anything heavier than a ten pack of timbits for a month plus change) I'll take another crack at it.
Maybe I should treat myself to a compression tester, that's the only thing I didn't investigate in any depth last time.
Cheers, David
2.5 NAD Won't Start - Again!
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dchsw
Yes, get fuel on all four lines when cranking. Interesting thing is that after cranking for a while, if I release the bleed valve on the injector pump I get lots of bubbles like there's air building up inside on turn over. Could be bacause I had the injector line open, of course, but possibly a symptom of something else.
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JD
Air Brakes
Dave,
We got that on Derek's 300Tdi last June when the fuel lift pump failed. Fuel came out of the lines but not enough pressure to get through the injectors (I think). New lift pump. Problem gone.
JD
We got that on Derek's 300Tdi last June when the fuel lift pump failed. Fuel came out of the lines but not enough pressure to get through the injectors (I think). New lift pump. Problem gone.
JD
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dchsw
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Rob
- Greasy Fingers
- Posts: 762
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:37 am
- Location: Ladysmith
Hi Dave
Joys of diesel huh... all that headache and more expensive at the pumps to boot (go figure).
I am thinking that your focus should remain on the fuel deliver and steer away from compression... my thought is that unless there was something catastrophic that occurred in the motor compression isn't something that suddenly goes bad and makes it impossible to start. If it is wear associated one would expect a progressive loss of power, increases in oil consumption and blow-by and more difficult starting but that should occur over a period of time and not be symptomatic of a sudden loss of compressive qualities.
I would think that the fuel delivery is the culprit but if you want to do a quick and dirty compression test disconnect the glow plugs and try a little starting fluid vapor. If you have enough compression for it to fire on those vapors it should be sound enough to fire on diesel as well. I am not a big fan of starting fluids in diesels so I suggest caution and conservative use of the juice (usual caveats apply).
Checking for fuel delivery to the injectors by loosening a fuel line really just tells you if there is flow, doesn’t give you much info about the quality or the pressure. As it is an NA diesel that you have I would expect to hear some clacketty-clack from the injectors if the injection pump is providing enough fuel pressure to break them open (overcoming the internal resistance of the injector). If that is the case then I would think that the pump is not generating enough pressure either due to mechanical failure, there is air in the system or a lack of fuel flow (restrictions somewhere in the system, pick-up problems in the tank, leaky filter, etc.). To eliminate the air leakage worries you can try wrapping all of the fuel line fittings and joints with Saran Wrap (no kidding, it works, trust me).
Though I don’t imagine the injectors all failing at once and making the motor a non-starter you can test them if you want the piece of mind knowing that the injector pattern is correct. Local shops can do it for you but they are usually expensive so what I do with my diesels is just pop in another set of injectors that I know are OK and see if it makes a difference - if the motor was to start that would suggest the old injectors were hooped (though that seems unlikely to me). “No go” leads us back to fuel delivery.
There is a fellow in Errington who does electric conversions…. Maybe it’s time to ditch the diesel and have an electric rover? :lol:
Joys of diesel huh... all that headache and more expensive at the pumps to boot (go figure).
I am thinking that your focus should remain on the fuel deliver and steer away from compression... my thought is that unless there was something catastrophic that occurred in the motor compression isn't something that suddenly goes bad and makes it impossible to start. If it is wear associated one would expect a progressive loss of power, increases in oil consumption and blow-by and more difficult starting but that should occur over a period of time and not be symptomatic of a sudden loss of compressive qualities.
I would think that the fuel delivery is the culprit but if you want to do a quick and dirty compression test disconnect the glow plugs and try a little starting fluid vapor. If you have enough compression for it to fire on those vapors it should be sound enough to fire on diesel as well. I am not a big fan of starting fluids in diesels so I suggest caution and conservative use of the juice (usual caveats apply).
Checking for fuel delivery to the injectors by loosening a fuel line really just tells you if there is flow, doesn’t give you much info about the quality or the pressure. As it is an NA diesel that you have I would expect to hear some clacketty-clack from the injectors if the injection pump is providing enough fuel pressure to break them open (overcoming the internal resistance of the injector). If that is the case then I would think that the pump is not generating enough pressure either due to mechanical failure, there is air in the system or a lack of fuel flow (restrictions somewhere in the system, pick-up problems in the tank, leaky filter, etc.). To eliminate the air leakage worries you can try wrapping all of the fuel line fittings and joints with Saran Wrap (no kidding, it works, trust me).
Though I don’t imagine the injectors all failing at once and making the motor a non-starter you can test them if you want the piece of mind knowing that the injector pattern is correct. Local shops can do it for you but they are usually expensive so what I do with my diesels is just pop in another set of injectors that I know are OK and see if it makes a difference - if the motor was to start that would suggest the old injectors were hooped (though that seems unlikely to me). “No go” leads us back to fuel delivery.
There is a fellow in Errington who does electric conversions…. Maybe it’s time to ditch the diesel and have an electric rover? :lol:
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dchsw
No end to the story yet.
I got a new lift pump and fitted it yesterday but the darn thing won't pump using the handle. The old one appears just fine, by the way. Deccided to crank a few times with the outlet from the lift pump disconnected to get the pump to prime and draw some fuel along the lines. Nothing. Engine won't turn over. Darn it.
Had to stop at that point as I'm not supposed to be doing this kind of stuff again yet and I heard the wife coming home. She's going out later today so maybe I'll sneak outside and have another look.
I got a new lift pump and fitted it yesterday but the darn thing won't pump using the handle. The old one appears just fine, by the way. Deccided to crank a few times with the outlet from the lift pump disconnected to get the pump to prime and draw some fuel along the lines. Nothing. Engine won't turn over. Darn it.
Had to stop at that point as I'm not supposed to be doing this kind of stuff again yet and I heard the wife coming home. She's going out later today so maybe I'll sneak outside and have another look.
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dchsw
Huzzah! The old girls running again.
Shop still not finished (don't get me started on electrical inspections, grrr) so kicked all the kids bikes, lawnmowers, dog baskets etc. out of the garage, pushed the truck in with the tractor and got to work this evening.
Non-cranking was simply a hooped battery. Threw another one in and got plenty of turn over, but still no fire. The brand new lift pump was still suspiciously slack in the handle department. Attempted to prime the system but go nowhere. Decided to remove the new pump and send it back.
Obviously didn't want to leave the pump aperture open in the engine case so stuck the old pump back on. Primed up ok, gave a good dose of heat form the new battery, turned over a dozen or so times, fired once and died, turned over again, fired and stayed running.
I think the root cause was the knackered battery. I made an assumption (deadly mistake) that the reason she wouldn't start was related to what happened last time so was quite happy to believe the lift pump was at fault. Getting a duff replacement was sheer bad luck, but that's life.
Now, lets take a look at that 130......
Shop still not finished (don't get me started on electrical inspections, grrr) so kicked all the kids bikes, lawnmowers, dog baskets etc. out of the garage, pushed the truck in with the tractor and got to work this evening.
Non-cranking was simply a hooped battery. Threw another one in and got plenty of turn over, but still no fire. The brand new lift pump was still suspiciously slack in the handle department. Attempted to prime the system but go nowhere. Decided to remove the new pump and send it back.
Obviously didn't want to leave the pump aperture open in the engine case so stuck the old pump back on. Primed up ok, gave a good dose of heat form the new battery, turned over a dozen or so times, fired once and died, turned over again, fired and stayed running.
I think the root cause was the knackered battery. I made an assumption (deadly mistake) that the reason she wouldn't start was related to what happened last time so was quite happy to believe the lift pump was at fault. Getting a duff replacement was sheer bad luck, but that's life.
Now, lets take a look at that 130......
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TDLightweight
This reminds of a problem I had with the Lightweight.
Forward momentum would be lost but engine would idle fine and rev o.k when stationary. I woudl than drive off and everything woudl be normal.
I suspected incorrectly that the transmission detent springs were the culprit and tha the truck was popping out of gear in such away tthat the shifter position appeared normal but things were not well in the transmission.
I stripped and rebuilt the top of the box and everything was as it should be according to the green Bible.
I parked the truck for a week while I mulled the problem over and than Eureka!.
I ran outside and started the truck and gently wiggled the 12V solenoid wire, sure enough the truck started to stumble.
The connector on the end of the wire was the cause of the problem.
Forward momentum would be lost but engine would idle fine and rev o.k when stationary. I woudl than drive off and everything woudl be normal.
I suspected incorrectly that the transmission detent springs were the culprit and tha the truck was popping out of gear in such away tthat the shifter position appeared normal but things were not well in the transmission.
I stripped and rebuilt the top of the box and everything was as it should be according to the green Bible.
I parked the truck for a week while I mulled the problem over and than Eureka!.
I ran outside and started the truck and gently wiggled the 12V solenoid wire, sure enough the truck started to stumble.
The connector on the end of the wire was the cause of the problem.