Smoking 2.5 Diesel

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moose · #1 Post by **moose** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:32 pm

Hi all. I looked at a couple of EX MOD 110's today and I have a question about the 2.5 diesel. Both trucks smoke pretty heavily upon start up and continue to smoke at idle and while accelerating. The smoke is blue but it doesn't smell like oil burning smoke. Of course, that may just be masked by the diesel smell. The owner of the trucks claims that all that is needed is the timing on the injector pump to adjusted properly and the smoke will clear right up. Went for a run in both trucks and neither will go over 80 kph. The owner says the reduced speed is due to the pump timing as well and that the military sets them this way for "longevity".

Does this sound plausible or are both engines in need of a rebuild? None of us knew enough about injector pumps to start mucking with the timing.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Brett

HeadDamage · #2 Post by **HeadDamage** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:46 am

Most of the ex Sufield diesel Rovers are have retarded timing and need to be advanced to run better. However, they just might be in poor shape and have low compression or something like that ;) You need to think about it before buying.

Bill E. · #3 Post by **Bill E.** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:50 am

Brett,
Sounds like those engines are baked. Don't buy the pump timing line. Any 2.5 regardless of state of tune should easily exceed 80km/h. They are smokey little buggers though and no amount of tinkering will dispense with a smokey start-up. Acceleration should leave a reasonably clean exhaust. You'll get black smoke if you lug the engine or if your running cool at altitude or on deceleration from high altitudes. The 2.5 is a fairly solid runner as long as you don't run it too hard at high speed.
Bill

moose · #4 Post by **moose** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:47 pm

That's what I thought Bill. I mean if it was such a simple fix adjusting the pump timing you would think the seller would make it right before trying to sell the vehicles. These things smoke all the time, ugly blue smoke. I fear they must be past their "best before date".

Thanks for the replies all.

Brett

red90 · #5 Post by **red90** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:40 am

IME, advance the timing.... Seriously... Retrarded timing will make them blow blue smoke out the ying yang. Loosen the injection pump bolts and rotate a couple of millimeters and see what happen.

red90 · #6 Post by **red90** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:41 am

Bill E. wrote:They are smokey little buggers though and no amount of tinkering will dispense with a smokey start-up.

Really?? Mine has no smoke on start-up.

John · #7 Post by **John** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:09 am

If you feel the need to go messing with the injection pump timing then I would suggest verifying it against the set-up specifications in the manual. Correct pump timing is critical in a diesel engine for longevity of the engine. The operating conditions inside the engine are far more severe than a gas engine and getting the timing wrong can have $$$ results. There are a number of engine conditions which can cause a diesel to smoke and while you may be able to mask the problem for a period by adjusting the injection timing it will likely not be a good thing in the long run.

As Bill said, these are not modern diesels and under certain conditions smoke can be expected - startup in cold weather, running with no load (coming down a mountain logging road where the cylinder head temperature drops off dramatically) are a couple.

John

Glenn D. · #8 Post by **Glenn D.** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:42 am

I recomend that you have the seller "reset the timing" before you buy, if it so simple. Let them rectify the problem BEFORE you buy.

Please see my previous post of "new motor" and "old motor" in this section.
My smokey 2.5 motor was "just a pump timing thing" and after a year of trying to fix it, I finally removed the head to have a look.

I had a bent pushrod and 3 cracked pistons.
And it still went over 100km/hr. Smoked like hell though.

Now I'm looking at buying a 200tdi. :D

moose · #9 Post by **moose** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:18 pm

Well, I bit the bullet and bought the smoking 110! Kept on the seller about excessive smoking and how I was sure it was more then just "A timing issue". Helped get the price down anyway. Dragged it home 535 km to Ontario from Quebec last weekend behind my buddies Sprinter van. And just to make things more interesting, a little further down the road we also picked up a 300 Tdi engine to stuff into it.:D Go big or go home, right!

So, once we find the time to do the work, I am sure I will have many more questions about swap.

Brett

Glenn D. · #10 Post by **Glenn D.** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:24 am

Congrats on the truck and motor purchase... you will be happier with the TDI.

I just bought a 200 tdi for mine.

Are you gonna bring it out to Founders Day?

moose · #11 Post by **moose** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:47 pm

Yes, I am very excited about putting the 110 and the Tdi together. Not a drop in but not rocket science either, right?

Doubt I'll make it out to Founders Day but I hope to do some serious road trippin in the 110 once it's all fettled, including trips out west (I'm in ON).

Brett

red90 · #12 Post by **red90** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:51 am

If you are fitting to the short bellhousing let us know how it ends up.

It is supposed to be a tight fit. I know it has been done on a RHD. If you have a LHD, it might not fit.

moose · #13 Post by **moose** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:41 pm

It had better fit or I will be one unhappy camper. :cry: This link shows the 300tdi going into a RHD with the short bellhousing

http://www.nicksjungle.co.uk/300tdi/300_tdi_engine.htm

Goes, but it is tight. I am conident all will be right with mine. Luckily will have a top notch welder/fabracator helping me :D

Brett

HeadDamage · #14 Post by **HeadDamage** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:32 pm

Wow... there is a crap load of stuff all where the steering should be in a LHD from what I can see in those pics. Should be fun getting it to work, also I don't like the electic fans that guys use in these sort of conversions. They do not move as much air as a mechanical one can under some situations.

red90 · #15 Post by **red90** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:38 am

HeadDamage wrote:..... I don't like the electic fans that guys use in these sort of conversions. They do not move as much air as a mechanical one can under some situations.

Next time your over, I'll show you the Taurus fan I picked up for $16 at Pick'nPull. Trust me, it moves more than the mechanical fan.

moose · #16 Post by **moose** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:50 pm

I suppose it would be a major undertaking to swap a short bellhousing for the longer one, yes? I guess you would have to pretty much tear down the gearbox to install the longer front output shaft.

Could save a lot of time and hassle during the engine swap though. Hmmm.

Brett

moose · #17 Post by **moose** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:32 pm

Hello all.

Well, I finally got the 110 all fettled and running well. A buddy with an Ex-Mod 90 owns a set of timing tools so we had at my engine to see if we could remedy the excessive smoke and 80 kph top speed. Turns out the timing was off quite a bit and setting it correctly has made a world of difference. Just a bit of smoke on start up now and nothing while driving. Speed is way up as well. Had 'er up to 110 kph and I think it had a bit more in it, but felt just right cruising at about 98 kph.

The truck passed it's safety inspection and Drive Clean emission test last weekend no worries and is on the road now plated and insured. As you can imagine, I am a happy camper. I've been driving my 88 for 23 years now and loving it, but man the 110 is a nice ride.

Now that I have it running so well, it will almost be a shame to install the 300Tdi... NOT!

Brett

ANDYD · #18 Post by **ANDYD** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:09 am

Hey Brett,
Its always good to hear a positive end to a Land Rover story.

Be sure to let us know how the 300TDI swap go's.....

Enjoy,
Andy

The Rover-Landers of BC

The Rover-Landers of BC