1959 SII 88 Highway Yellow

[thenortherner]

First forum post. Hi, everyone I'm Alex from Smithers. I recently horse traded an old quad for my first rover, a 65 88" IIA wagon. It looked like a crumped up beer can, the engine was seized and the rear frame was rotten. Concerns over the engine and some missing parts brought me to rover number 2, a 1960 88" SII hard top. Between the two I should have enough parts for one. I'm hoping for some direction on which series to base it off. As far as I can tell the main difference is the vent mechanisms and heaters. How much worse are the S2 heaters? I like the small piping of the S2, it looks cleaner and less like an after thought. I have experience with Series vehicles. I have access to a full CNC shop, CNC HD Plasma table, shear brake, welding skills etc. I am loving the rovers because everything it to easy to make, it's all dead straight.

65 Series IIA (Likely built in 62/63?)
-History was bought to access a property in Ashcroft in late 1960's, driven until 78. Has been to Mexico, original owner still alive and has fond memories.
-Plugs left out of the motor, pistons seized so firmly a sledge won't move them. Bringing it to work to test against the 100 ton press.
-Had later 8:1 head on it which has already been milled .050"
-Front Axle just finished rebuilding with new swivel balls, seals, tie rods, it has been updated. Steering knuckles had studs top and bottom.
-Bulkhead foot wells quite rotten but outer frame is decent. Many holes from PO accessories, winches, lights............
-Rear tub reality good condition
-Rear quarter frame rotted but I just finished rebuilding.
-Some rot on bottom of bulkhead outriggers but easy enough to fix.
-Rochester B Carb

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New Bumper

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After a lot of slapping, annealing, shrinking....

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60 Series II
-One family owned since new. Almost all original
-Crumbled up beer can look again, but not as bad
-One vent adjuster is broken
-Bulkhead has rot at the very base of footwells.
-Weber Carb
-Ran when parked

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I was going to use the best of the wing panels and rear tubs/tops. Use the rebuilt diffs. Is there much or any difference in the 2 vs 2A trans? The 2A has a C suffix. I was going to take another .050 off the 8:1 head and put it on the 2 block.

Is their any reason to favour having one ownership on the road over the other? Thank you

[oldgravy]

Series 2s are rarer, and they have cooler bits than the 2As. Mostly the differences are cosmetic. Someone more knowledgeable than me will comment on the suffix C question.

My series 2 is ending up with a new 2A frame, rear axle from a series 3, a tub from a 2A, and probably (hopefully?) disc brakes. And who knows, if the gods smile upon me a 200tdi. Point being, you can do a correct, accurate resto of either 2 or 2A, or you can do what many others have done and just make a bitsa build out of whatever you like. Parts are reasonably interchangeable.

[bsa_m21]

Do not use the press on the stuck pistons, yet. Pour some diesel into the cylinders and let it soak for a few weeks. This often loosens the rust enough to then push them out without (too much) damage to the cylinders. Just my experience with a motor that sat for 25 years.

[thenortherner]

Do not use the press on the stuck pistons, yet. Pour some diesel into the cylinders and let it soak for a few weeks. This often loosens the rust enough to then push them out without (too much) damage to the cylinders. Just my experience with a motor that sat for 25 years.

I have, but the excrement from the pack rats has created a good seal and nothing makes it down. I had to vacuum the water and pack rat turds out of the cylinders. All four cylinder were full of water and piss for the last 30ish years. I have tried diesel, snake oil, acids.... Nothing makes it down to the rings. I have used dental picks to try and scratch out the debris around the top of the piston with no luck.

Here is an early picture from when I first popped the head up to peak in.

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[thenortherner]

The press was not an option I jumped to. It's been a slow progression exhausting all the local knowledge of breaking pistons loose. I forgot to mention I have tried heat cycling them to with torches. If the press won't move them at a reasonable force, I'll melt them out. I have another engine now so I'm more interested in which style to build 2 or 2A

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[Rob]

Series 2 and 2A motors differed, at first glance they are the same but the 2A motor has quite a few changes. Some parts for the early series 2 motors are very hard to source. As far as rescuing the 2A motor, there is only so much that snake oil and time will do for you if the rust is deep seated in the motor. On the bright side, 2A petrol motors are still fairly easy to source and you might save a lot of time and aggravation by getting a decent running motor and then focusing on the other aspects of the restoration.

Good luck with the project!

Regards, Rob

[TimberPig]

The 2/2a trans evolved through the years, but the biggest differences are:
Suffix a (2 and early 2a)- slightly higher transmission gear ratios, lower low range to compensate, smaller front lay shaft bearing (weaker lay shaft), smaller intermediate shaft in the transfer box (weaker shaft)
Suffix B- larger front lay shaft bearing(stronger lay shaft), larger intermediate shaft, same low range and trans ratios as suffix a
Suffix C on- lower transmission ratios, layshaft diameter at the front bearing carried forward, larger intermediate shaft carried forward but with higher low range ratio to balance the lower transmission gearing to the same final ratio
Suffix D-F - shouldered layshaft instead of a circlip (stronger layshaft) and had other very minor changes to incrementally increase the strength. F has a sealed throw out housing rather than the Archimedes screw to keep the oil in the gearbox.

Each suffix added some improvements in strength, but the big leap was a to B, from there the changes were in smaller increments.

By the looks of your trucks, I would say they both look to be worthy of being put back together. If the 2 has a series 2 engine, there are a number of differences vs a 2a engine and series 2 bearings and other series 2 specific engine pieces can be hard to find. A later engine will swap in and be easier to find parts for.

[thenortherner]

Thanks guys! My thoughts exactly, I wasn't focusing on the 2A engine. I bought the 2 because it was a much better part. I wasn't aware bearings were getting harder to come by though. I was more wondering which bulkhead and style to build, which seems to come down to screw vents and heaters...

From my wheel'n days the best combo seems to be the C trans with the early transfer case. Or is the early box weak enough to not warrant the better ratio?

[TimberPig]

Of the gearbox/transfer boxes you have, the C gearbox and transfer box are the strongest. The a transfer box has a slightly lower low range, but at the expense of the smaller and weaker intermediate shaft. The best combination of low gearing/strength is a D on gearbox with a suffix B low range gear set. Up to you if you think you need to chase the lower ratio or greater strength or not.

The bulkhead differences are bolt on door check tubes, screw on vent flaps and the screw style vent closers on the 2, vs welded check tubes, spot welded vent flaps, and lever closers. Preference more than anything here.

Heaters were normally dealer installed options, with increasing output from the early to later models. The smaller vent tubes of the earlier model heaters flow less air than the larger ones, so it really comes down to your needs and if you want looks or better performance.

[thenortherner]

Of the gearbox/transfer boxes you have, the C gearbox and transfer box are the strongest. The a transfer box has a slightly lower low range, but at the expense of the smaller and weaker intermediate shaft. The best combination of low gearing/strength is a D on gearbox with a suffix B low range gear set. Up to you if you think you need to chase the lower ratio or greater strength or not.

The bulkhead differences are bolt on door check tubes, screw on vent flaps and the screw style vent closers on the 2, vs welded check tubes, spot welded vent flaps, and lever closers. Preference more than anything here.

Heaters were normally dealer installed options, with increasing output from the early to later models. The smaller vent tubes of the earlier model heaters flow less air than the larger ones, so it really comes down to your needs and if you want looks or better performance.

Thanks TimberPig! That's exactly what I was looking for.

I also found my Rover on the Registry and it seems it was one of three sent to Vancouver in "Highway Yellow" in May of 59. Is their any prestige in that colour?

[ANDYD]

Welcome to the forum and good to see more Series vehicles being saved from the Scrapper! 8)

Here is another thread that had a highway yellow 1959 Series 2 that may be of interest to you ....
viewtopic.php?t=7708

Enjoy your project / projects
Andy

[thenortherner]

Welcome to the forum and good to see more Series vehicles being saved from the Scrapper! 8)

Here is another thread that had a highway yellow 1959 Series 2 that may be of interest to you ....
viewtopic.php?t=7708

Enjoy your project / projects
Andy

Wow thanks for sharing! I have 144902916 just 2 Rovers earlier.