Rebuilding Duffy

[oldgravy]

Alright, it's time to start... again. The pile of parts in my basement and garage are henceforth to be known as Duffy. He (it?) is a 1960 Series 2 109" Regular. You might remember us from previous threads -- I had a teardown thread detailing the first part of the process here:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7281

It's time to start putting things back together. Took me six years (or more) to get the thing properly stored in the basement (that takes time, you know) and acquire enough tools in relative proximity to Duffy that I can now sort of be confident that I can solve some mechanical problems.

To document the process, I've moved my rebuild thread over to a Google Sites project so that I don't have to use silly image hosting websites. Hopefully this works well. It's very, uh, blank so far -- decoration will have to wait, I'm afraid, for time and inclination to catch up.

So it's still a work in progress but I have done my first post! You can find a link to the site here.

Let's see how this goes.

[ANDYD]

Hi,

Congrats on getting her finally on the rebuild stage, will be watching with interest. Will she be staying yellow?
I would weld repair any dings and dents in the axles and clean them up and apply a good quality paint, will be good for another 50 yrs :bounce:

Just for your information you can upload photos onto this forum without using any hosting site like "Photo#ucket" ... just saying!

Good luck, step by step, day by day ..... you will get there.

-Andy

[oldgravy]

Thanks for the suggestion.

Took my axle housing around to three places in Langley last Saturday. Two closed (one permanently) and the other didn't want the work as the job was too small.

Anyone know a reliable frame or fabrication shop in Langley / Cloverdale?

[acg]

Give Darin a call at Balmer Fab in Abbotsford. He is a one person smaller job and is willing to take on unique jobs. He has done some work for Roverlanders:

https://www.balmerfab.com/home

Good luck on your project!

[oldgravy]

Good luck on your project!

Thank you!

[oldgravy]

So I am rebuilding one of the three diffs I have to go into a nice axle housing I was able to acquire, and I am thinking I should put fresh bearings in. Does anyone have a bearing puller and a press and a spare afternoon? I can bribe you with 🍺 or 🍪 or something!

[oldgravy]

New post!

I start work on the rear differential.

[oldgravy]

Here we go with the next step of the rebuild process. At this rate, I'll be done by... 2044?

Some lessons learnt, for sure.

Can you all see the website OK? I'm not just linking you to something that doesn't work, right?

[Bill E.]

Yes, your link is working fine for me. Keep up the good work, I'm enjoying the posts.

[zastonator]

cool to see that you didn't give up on it. very cool 109' keep it up!

[oldgravy]

Thanks for the feedback, gents.

I attempted to do some more work, this time by taking a look at the brake backing plates.

I guess this must happen to everyone who undertakes a big rebuild, right?

[oldgravy]

New post!

I reassemble what I have for the rear diff, with (of course) a couple of problems along the way.

I am thinking that now that I've reread some of my old posts, I should probably take the thing into a specialist for a proper checkup. I haven't been able to check preload, backlash, or deal with the wobbly gears in the diff centre. :/

[mepham55]

Your brake back plates are the early 109” style which someone has welded nuts to so they could use the later style cylinders! I’m not sure you can even get the correct cylinders for the early style anymore. The cheapest option (unless you want to stay with original dated parts) is to switch the back plates to the later style then you can easily get all the correct parts for your 109”.

Matt

[oldgravy]

Thanks Matt. That is my plan, sir, and I am hoping you have a couple back plates that will suit...?

[mepham55]

Thanks Matt. That is my plan, sir, and I am hoping you have a couple back plates that will suit...?

Pretty sure I do. I’ll check and let you know what I have.

Matt

[oldgravy]

I should clarify, I have new cylinders and other parts.

Am I correct in understanding that brake back plates are NLA?

[oldgravy]

Well, the time has come to get the chassis finished. It's really the start of the project and all the other stuff I'm doing is mere window dressing. Without a frame, I've nothing to bolt to, really. My existing frame needs some repair, as you can see from my original teardown thread. The short list of needed repairs is:

1. Rear crossmember
2. Front crossmember (steering relay housing still stuck in it)
3. Forward spring hangers
4. Top rear shock mounts
5. Repairs to 3-4 existing patches on the frame

In addition, I need the footwells replaced on my bulkhead and I'd like a power steering bracket (P38) welded on.

I have considered two options. First, sourcing a replacement frame. The cheapest estimate I found would have been shipping a frame FOB to Calgary for $2500. On top of the $5k to buy a new chassis from Richards, PLUS a 6+ month waiting time. That's just too expensive.

The only other option is to find someone to repair the existing frame. In my mind, this has to be cheaper -- even including getting it galvanized -- than going with a new built frame. You can tell, obviously, that I'm not a metal fabricator, so take this conclusion with a grain of salt.

Anyway, I have to find a place that will do it for me. There are, again, some options -- one of the existing sponsors / specialists; a third party classic auto restorer; or a shade-tree type fab shop. There are pros and cons to each, obviously.

I have concerns.

- I have no idea if my existing frame is straight or not. I have astigmatism and it's hard to tell.
- There's no cost certainty. Lots more could need doing on the existing frame. There are some previous patches that might need to be taken out and redone.
- I'm going to put my kids in this thing when it's done, so I want a quality job.
- It's actually really nerve-wracking having someone potentially change the geometry of the vehicle.

What have you guys done? Most of you seem to be fabricators or have welding friends. I have neither. Your advice is greatly appreciated!

-Simon

[ANDYD]

Hi, have you tried Jeremy at Rocky Mountain in North Van? He did have some new Series Chassis in stock for a while. He also has parts to repair you chassis if you prefer.
Rocky Mountain have most Series parts that you need (he doesn't have much Series 1 stuff). He normally ships at cost price too.
If you decide to repair, Series chassis are very rigid and wont move much when you cut bits out. What I did was used some ready-rod to make some home made big "clamps" to hold it square while bits were cut out and then welded back in.

Where are you located?

Cheers
Andy

[oldgravy]

Where are you located?

I'm in Cloverdale, sir. And I have visited Jeremy a few times. He has no chassis and no plans to get any again. AFAIK there is no one locally bringing them in any more.

I know I can buy some of the pieces -- rear crossmember, etc -- but where to get the fabrication work done, reasonably affordably, is the challenge.

[bsa_m21]

Re bringing a frame - Check out this posting:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11422

[oldgravy]

Thanks Martin!

[TimberPig]

A few thoughts on repairing your existing frame if you choose to go that route:
-you can check for square and trueness of your frame to see if it is out significantly with a length of string, a tape measure and an extra set of hands (string strung taught gives a straight line, tape measures distances including diagonals to check squareness). Won’t get you as perfect as a frame machine, but will give a quick check to see if it is even close before spending more time on a frame that is way out of being straight.
-any original frame that shows visible corrosion beyond very light surface rust will have more than you realize when you dig in to fix it, and it all needs to be addressed if you want it to last and be safe. A hammer and screwdriver are your friends in evaluating what needs repair and if the frame is too far gone to salvage.
-doing your own frame repairs requires not only the investment in equipment but also the time to develop the proper welding skills to do a proper and safe job of the repairs. This isn’t something you can just pick up a cheap welder and instantly slap it together. Depending on your own interest, finances, working space and future needs, it may or may not make sense to get set up and learn to do it yourself. Welding is not hard, but does require the right equipment, skill set, practice and settings to do it right, but most people can learn to do it if they wish to. It also requires adequate workspace, which in many home garages is in short supply.
-having a friend with the skills and gear to help if you don’t is great, but again not always the case for everyone.
-paying a shop to do the repairs will not be overly cheap either, as their costs are fairly high so their hourly rate is too. Also such a project is not something every shop is willing to do. Some are simply too busy to take on such small jobs, some don’t want the potential liabilities and headaches. Not every shop will do the same standard of work as well. If you find a good shop that does a good job, you will have nearly as good as new at a lesser cost than a full new frame (hopefully). Ensure you get a detailed quote in writing if you can to avoid sticker shock when it is done and the cost went up from your original price.
-the replacement pieces (you mentioned a rear cross member) can add up, and when added to the shop hours could add up to be a good chunk of a new frame. Depending how far gone it is, it may not be economical to repair your frame if you cannot do the work yourself instead of hiring a shop.
-anything you can do to clean the frame up (scraping off all the loose rust etc) will limit the working time and thus cost you are paying the shop for, but will need to discuss with whomever you are having do the job on how far they want you to take it.
-taking it to a shop will involve the time, cost and hassle of dragging it there. Depends on who you are working with, they may be able to come and do the job with a mobile rig (or bring a machine if you have adequate power avaiable) at your place and cost/hassle may be worth it.
-a new frame avoids many of these issues, but the cost is high to get one here and there may be differences from your original that may cause some headaches at reassembly when you have to adapt to make it work, so they aren’t necessarily fully trouble free either.

Ultimately you are the only one who can make the call on if the cost and difficulty of getting a new frame are worthwhile over the cost and difficulties of repairing what you have and which route you are heading down, just some thoughts that may help you work through it.

[oldgravy]

Thanks for the thoughts. This has been a big stumbling block of a process.

I think one of the positive things about restoring a Series Land Rover is that it's pretty accessible; it's mostly something you can do in a standard garage by yourself without too much in the way of special tools... with some exceptions. One of those exceptions is in the frame. I appreciate many of you will have the skills and confidence to embark upon a repair on your own, with equipment you own or can borrow, making this considerably easier. As you said, it's great if you have a friend that can do this.

If you don't, it's a significant expense that probably has killed more than one project in its tracks.

[oldgravy]

Well, I bit the bullet and decided to order a new chassis directly from Richards.

Hopefully I can find a taker for my old frame?

[oldgravy]

A new post, wherein I start working on propshaft refurbishment.