1960 SII 109 Teardown

[oldgravy]

@swami and @red yeah, you guys are right. I had that thought while I was disassembling my ball (joints) yesterday. If I strip the frame, how will I protect the areas I can't get to?

I didn't come up with a great answer, but it's good to know that galv is not that expensive. It'll need to go to a shop for repairs first though for sure, and I will need to source a complete rear cross-member.

[S3ute]

Hello again from Brisbane.

While on the topic of tie rod ends - especially given that the ones I am seeing in the various photos look like they are now u/s - be aware that Series Land Rovers are supposed to have used two different but similar looking parts. The older trucks up to about early Series 3 had an unthreaded section on both the steering rod tube end and the tie rod joint which is where the clamp goes. The Series 3 had a thread all the way in both the tube and joint which was clamped over the thread.

Parts suppliers are likely to not notice the difference and sell the later fully threaded type which does not interchange well - either way the clamp is ineffective and usually results in premature wear of the thread and possibly failure of the steering itself. So, best to check what thread arrangement you actually have and buy the correct part for it.

Cheers,

Neil

[S3ute]

Irritatingly, there's just one pit on the driver's side swivel ball:

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah4 ... joqcgx.jpg

I don't suppose it can be sanded smooth so as not to damage the seal too much and left? :roll: Didn't think so, so it looks like one of those will get added to the parts list as well. ;)

Frustratingly close to having a bare frame.

Hello again.

Back when these trucks were more common you used to be able to get them rechromed quite cheaply. Not now unfortunately. However, if they aren't too bad - yours seems good - some people over here sometimes use epoxy resin to fill pits and I gather with some success.

Cheers,

Neil

[oldgravy]

Well, I'm truly flummoxed by the steering relay.

Left it for a week with the weight of the truck on it -- of course, it didn't move. So today I decided to rig up a small cradle to hang the jack from the frame. I used some chain and an AR500 steel target, since I don't have anything else and (even if I did) no way to fabricate what I need... all I have is hand tools.

Anyway, the score is steering relay: 2, oldgravy: 0.

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah4 ... wkx7lt.jpg

Yes, I'm aware it's a terrible looking bodge, but it's what I have.

The relay even left a dent or two in the top of my 8-ton bottle jack:

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah4 ... dyqstj.jpg

Short of cutting it out, any last ideas?

[DrRangelove]

You can try rebuilding it in situ. Thats what im doing - bought a seal kit and had same issues as you trying to remove the relay housing so i just pulled the internals. If you do this, beware of the big honking spring that is likely under tension in there!

[oldgravy]

You can try rebuilding it in situ. Thats what im doing - bought a seal kit and had same issues as you trying to remove the relay housing so i just pulled the internals. If you do this, beware of the big honking spring that is likely under tension in there!

I want to have the chassis acid dipped and galv'ed. So it needs to come out one way or t'other!

[DrRangelove]

Ahh i see. Have you tried applying heat yet?

[DrRangelove]

[DrRangelove]

[The_Anachronist]

Gravy,
I just last night managed to get the steering column, steering box, pitman arm and whatever we call the first steering rod that runs to the relay, all out as an assembly. Had to undo all the bracket bolts, then slide and wiggle and turn the wheel and curse and then it was out.
When it's out and on the bench, getting that arm off the steering box is super easy...
Sometimes I can't believe that the same engineers somehow won the Battle of Britain!

[The_Anachronist]

OK that one is impressive overkill...

[oldgravy]

Thanks guys. I've tried various methods as suggested in the various videos. The score now is Relay: 3, OldGravy: 0.

Went to Alder Auto and bought a 6" puller. Figured, what the hell? May as well give that method a try.

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah4 ... 6wcjxp.jpg

Nope. That's a bent wrench, bent bracket, bent frame which as you can see has prised the ears that the bolts pass through away from the top of the relay, and that's about it. I've reefed on that thing and she ain't movin'.

I'm somewhat leery about heating up a large area of the frame to see if it'll help. Honestly worried about annealing a crucial area.

Getting very discouraged about this, actually, and all other work on the LR has stopped for the past couple weeks as a result. I've spent a fair bit buying stuff to hack together a fix and so far, no go. Time to call the professionals, or just cut the f*cking thing out. I really don't have the tools or hardware to fabricate a more robust solution.

Anyone want to buy a 6" puller? I can't imagine I'll ever use it again.

[red90]

It does not look like you have even broken the paint to the upper support. You want to at least get that cut free. The jack will have much more force that a little puller.

[BOlson]

Have you tried soaking the relay with penetrating oil? ( a 50\50 mix of acetone and ATF works great and it's cheap) or PB blaster?... We also use a Walter product called "cold shock " at work and it will free up severely seized bolts .. Don't bother with wd40 it doesn't really do anything other than make stuff shiny for a while

[The_Anachronist]

Now I'm getting scared... my relay removal starts this weekend!

If you can find Aero-Kroil, that stuff is hands down the shizzle for penetrating oil/rust breaker. Soak it and walk away. Repeat for days.

As for heat annealing the steel, I think you would have to work pretty hard to get it hot enough (red-hot). And if you did, you could temper it again but I really don't think you will get there.

Shock is the other key - pressure with the puller, then a whack with the hammer on anything in contact with the seized area (not damaging stuff of course).

If it comes down to it, I have a spare sawed-out section of a 109 frame, complete with stuck relay here! Cheap!

Oh and I might just buy that puller off you... bring it with you!

[oldgravy]

It does not look like you have even broken the paint to the upper support. You want to at least get that cut free. The jack will have much more force that a little puller.

Heh, the shiny stuff you're seeing on the upper support bracket is penetrating oil.

[red90]

The oil won't affect or get past the paint. You need to physically remove that first.

[oldgravy]

The score is now Steering Relay: 4, OldGravy: 0. The relay has defeated me for good! :roll:

TheAnachronist popped by a couple of weeks ago and has some video of me taking his steel cradle and 12-ton bottle jack to it. Unfortunately, the frame bulged and the casting on the top of the steering relay failed, sending the top of the relay up into my garage door.

Now to go look at disassembly videos for the relay to get that spring out of there... it would seem the whole front crossmember will have to be cut out. :(

[The_Anachronist]

I feel terrible! But that little bastard was NOT coming out of there... If it's any consolation my steering relay housing is cracked too! Have to look at making an adaptor ring for the Eliminator.

[oldgravy]

Been a while since I posted an update. You know how it goes.

The top of the steering relay sheared right off around where a set screw seems to sit on the outside. It sat there for a couple of months as I moved on to other projects, but since the much-rumoured spring was still there and under tension, I figured I had better finally deal with the guts of the relay. So I pulled the bottom plate off, as advised, and hammered the guts down into a cardboard box with my coveralls in them to absorb any bouncy things that might fall out.

Much to my chagrin nothing happened. The spring was there, to be sure, but it just fell out the bottom with the rest of the relay guys. I was expecting all manner of things, from bearings to fireworks to dancing gnomes, and reality was quite underwhelming. Note: your mileage may vary! Read your shop manual.

These are the contents of my steering relay:

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah4 ... ofe5jc.jpg

That's it, I guess?

Maybe one day soon I'll beg / borrow an engine crane and pull out the gearbox and engine, leaving the axles and a bare frame.

[The_Anachronist]

You and me both. I have just moved house, the new garage is not only small but crammed with crap. But I will get the Rover back here and rent a hoist and we can do both in one day! (in case that doesn't happen soon enough for you, Brookswood Rentals has them, as I'm every other decent rental joint does).

Sadness over no wrench-spinning for months... between renovating, selling, moving in and more renovating, I very much doubt I will be on the Rover until the New Year at the soonest!

[The_Anachronist]

Gravy: I now own an engine crane. What’s your situation?

[ANDYD]

Hi,
I'm just about to start on my Steering relay and reading this (and other bad experiences online) makes me very nervous!
Just curious, isn't it possible to leave the relay body in place and just remove the internal parts for replacement?

cheers,
Andy

[The_Anachronist]

Well, yes, and there are those who are quite insistent that this is what you should do. Makes me nervous, personally.
If you would like to use the Eliminator, let me know. I’d recommend working up some kind of spacer to avoid the destruction Gravy and I experienced. Let me know...

[cbalme]

Andy

I didn't rebuild mine, I don't think there is much that can go wrong on the inside. I chose to fill mine with One Shot Grease through a grease nipple where the fill bolt was. It hasn't leaked out so far and my Relay turns nice and easy. I would recommend against taking it apart because from DrRangeLove's photos it looks like a hell of a job to get that spring back in.

Just my thoughts.