rover race build snag...

[John Boy]

hello all;

I have run into a snag with my 1963 IIa.... So... who am I, and what am I talking about? Lend me your ears, and your experience. I'm new to this forum, met a few members in Lady Smith one day as I was pulling my new IIa find home behind my Range Rover. The members invited me to join and asked about my IIa. I mentioned that I bought it to build a race truck for a 24 day rally through Asia, called the Road to Mandalay.. http://www.endurorally.com/pages/road-to-mandalay ...

That was then, this is now... I have since pulled the IIa into my garage and have begun stripping it apart, taking photos along the way to start a build page on this forum. Let me start by saying I'm not a purest, but I am mindful of historic automobiles. I have raced in many rallies over the past ten years, Targa Newfoundland, Targa California, Targa Canada West, and several other smaller events, plus auto cross. I race a few BMW's and a collector Mini with a David Visser build 998cc.

The plan with this Rover build was to find a wreck that no one would miss ($800), and remove all the running gear and other needed parts from my Mazda B2600 and as the donor, build a two wheel/ four wheel race Rover to run in Asia. The reason for the Mazda is obvious, 2 and 4 wheel allows me to run the rally as a two wheel racer with the option to four wheel if needed. Check the web site for info on that if interested.

So... to the snag I spoke of earlier. I have removed almost everything, just the drive train and bulk head to go, and the dam thing is mint. Sure there is a few minor spots of surface rust, and even one or two holes, but I was expecting something I could cut up. With the demise of the Defender, and facing a mostly mint IIa, I find now I can no longer bring myself to cut this Rover up and build a racer like I wanted. Drop a fresh engine in what I have and you could drive this away.

I would still like to run the race in Asia, but now I think it best if I don't destroy a perfectly salvageable IIa to do it. So here is where I need your worldly wisdom... I need to be able to do 60 to 70 mph for a good part of the day, for 24 days to be in this rally. How can this be achieved using Rover parts and be durable and not butcher a piece of history? The block that is in the Rover now is likely not repairable but the remainder of the drive train looks promising.

With some guidance and direction, I would start a build page.

Cheers
Johnny B

[RamblerRob]

As far as Rover problems go I have to say "my frames not rusty enough" is probably one of the less common ones lol.
Do you have an 88" or 109" my frame is plenty rusty but I'm planning on a replacement chassis anyway.

[island dormy]

Hi John

If you want to keep original look up Turner engineering in the UK. They have been around for many years and do a up graded 2.25 petrol engine that will easily run 70mph or faster all day and in combination with a overdrive or higher ratio diffs and a good supply of ear plugs you could run at 70 mph all day if you wanted to.

The fellow in this video has installed a V8 (maybe Rover brand). In the video it sounds like he is still running the stock Land rover series transmission as you can hear the wonderful whinging sound they make. I do not think the stock transmission would last very long behind the V8 if you gave it a lot of welly time after time.

Good luck

Victor 1962 Dormobile

[John Boy]

Hello again;

Well.. my IIa is the 88 version. The answer for RamblerRob. This frame was coated heavily in undercoating asphalt, and my guess was that after that, it spent several years in a bog, I have a huge pile of sand and dirt that I've scrapped of this thing sitting on my garage floor.

The V8 is cool, but I just can't bring myself to do that to such a small vehicle. I was considering jamming my spare 5.0 Mercedes block and auto transmission into my 1953 Austin A40 Summerset once, then I realized that the Mercedes starter alone might flip the car on its side.

I know that the website you pointed to uses a lot of TD5 engines in rovers, I don't wish to use diesel because the finding of gas alone in this rally trip seems challenging enough.

Cheers
Johnny B

[DrRangelove]

Could you not cruise along at 60mph with the standard 2.25l engine, Roamerdrive and taller tires? 70 might be a push but 60-65mph could be doable although your ear drums might protest!

[John Boy]

Well my race experience says... probably not... I hate being the last guy, just to competitive I guess. I took a long look at my rover and Mazda today, and I wonder how large the 2.25 block can be board out too? One piston let go in the original block and scared the cylinder wall, so if there is enough meat on the block, a bore might be possible. Then I could keep the originality intact and just bore and stroke the block for the much needed horse power.

Then there is my Mazda drive train... the length of which is about 5 feet, from fan to U joint. Compare that to the rover at about 4 foot 6 inches, allow for wiggle room and maybe..... The problem being I would need the rear Mazda dif... and the drive shaft angle is uncomfortably sharp....

The thoughts abound, but the end result is stay as original looking as possible. So as not to butcher the IIa, with the need for speed for 24 days through the jungles of Asia. :bounce:

[DrRangelove]

Would be easier to do the race in a Mazda mate! :wink:

[John Boy]

The race is for classics only. So no Mazda is to new.

[island dormy]

Hi John

You can bore a 2.25 petrol out 40 thousands you can also put liners in if the bores are real bad. The head can be shaved to give a 9:1 compression ratio. The head can also be ported and polished and you can run a slightly bigger single barrel carburetor like a carter off a 1960s Chevrolet. Add a header, free flow muffler, electronic ignition and a few other goodies including a Roamer drive and 235x85x16 tires and your 88 will cruise at 70 MPH no problem. Gas mileage may only be between 16 -18 mpg.

You will have to find out if your engine is really a 1963 early 2.25s had different water pumps and different heads and the modifications you need to do may not work on a very early 2.25petrol.

Visit Terri Ann Wakemans land rover page for all kinds of info. The Land rover Series 2 club is also great. You do have to join the series 2 club forum to see all the photos.

Good luck

Victor 1962 Dormobile

[Greg S]

It is doable with the 2.25 petrol. A few short years ago I had to get to Colorado in a hurry from Vancouver Island. I drove hour after hour (after hour)at speeds to 75 mph and it got closer to 9 mpg at that speed (or less). It will not maintain that speed up hills but it is amazing how you can maintain a higher speed up a hill when you already have the engine running at its peak HP/ rpm. If already at a slow speed and depending on the steepness of the hill of course, you might only be able to get to 40 mph. I joke that my Land Rover is programmed to run on roads, I seems to automatically slow to the cautionary speed sign when going through the mountains. Head up a hill and if there is a corner ahead with a "slow to 40" sign, she seems to automatically slow to the posted speed. Happens too often to be accidental; yet 75 mph is doable on a US freeway.

My engine is bored to +40 thou, has a Rochester single throat carb designed for a 1953 chev pick up truck with the 235 cu" 6 cylinder. Electronic ignition; electric fan; alternator; stock exhaust manifold; stock intake manifold; stock 8:1 head; K+N airfilter; GPS for a speedo. 32" tires (750 x 16 or 235/85 - 16). Do the math for speed, 32" tire gives you about 17.25 mph/1000 rpm. I also run 255/85- 16 tire which are just a hair under 34". More speed but less power but better off road but larger turning circle without mods. Short wheel base 88" and LWB 109" Series Land Rovers have EXACTLY the same engine and running gear (with exceptions) but the 88" came stock with a 15" or small 16" tire and the 109's came stock with 7.50 x 16 tires, so 109's could technically go faster; unless of course you put the same size tires on the 88". I put 255/85-16's on without modification. The 109 has a wider spring spacing at the rear so the 88 has better articulation (nothing to do with speed or power).

I have an SU carb to go on it and "might" get better performance from it than the Rochester. My Rochester is suspect. I have terrible low end power/ stalling under load issues with it. Especially starting off on a hill or peaking a steep hill at low speed off road.

So, the question is - under what conditions are you wanting to drive at 60 - 70 mph?

I have no idea how many HP my engine has but there are claims that it isn't hard to get 100 HP out of them. A 2.5 petrol is almost the same engine with a but more displacement and a better cam. The 200 Tdi has 110 to 122 HP and slips in without much trouble. The Series transfer case can take 150+ HP reliably from reading I've done and there are adapters for different US made transmissions. There is a guy back east in the US that made an adapter kit to install a GM Iron Duke 4 cyl onto the Series gearbox, reported to be about 150 HP and 150+ ft lbs of torque from idle to full rpm.

My 109 is in Duncan and is available for a test drive but should get a new set of U joints before much longer.

[Greg S]

Re-post.

[John Boy]

Well... After much research and soul searching, I have finally decided to build a V8 Series IIa for the race through Asia. I bought a 1995 Land Rover Discovery and will transplant the drive train completely into the 1963 Rover. Made a few new Rover friends who helped answer a few questions I had, so I will start a build page soon. I wanted to stay as original Rover as I could get after discovering the condition of the IIa I bought and this seems to be the closest answer I can get and still be a racer. Thanks to all the guys to answered my previous posts, your direction and information was much needed..

[DaveB]

Why not do the opposite? transplant the IIa body onto the Discovery? That way you get the benefits of coil sprung suspension, and you know for certain all the mechanical bits will fit together. Only thing is to get 2wd you would have to put some freewheeling hubs on the front and lock the centre diff when you are in 2wd.

In my opinion its a lot easier refitting body panels than large mechanical parts.

cheers, Dave

[RichardV]

Why not do the opposite? transplant the IIa body onto the Discovery? That way you get the benefits of coil sprung suspension, and you know for certain all the mechanical bits will fit together. Only thing is to get 2wd you would have to put some freewheeling hubs on the front and lock the centre diff when you are in 2wd.

In my opinion its a lot easier refitting body panels than large mechanical parts.

cheers, Dave

Unfortunately you would also get a Disco frame which if within a 500km radius of moisture will rot to Swiss cheese before you can get you waxoyl out!

[John Boy]

Well... I had considered using the Discovery frame, cutting it down to fit the 88... I'm guessing the only off roading the owner of the Discovery ever did was bumping over a curb once or twice, the frame is fairly good, something I could work with. The Discovery would be a 100 inch frame, and I watched a few videos on the 100, interesting... But the plan was to say as close to original as possible for the race officials to be happy, and not consider me being to modern for the classic nature of the race. I have started a build page, and would love a few bits of advice.
Cheers