Rear output seal removal problems

[Rambler]

Hoping for some helpful advice or suggestions please. I'm in the middle of changing the rear output seal on my series iii land rover . Got the transmission brake off (eventually), but not having much luck pulling out the old oil seal. My attempts with a screwdriver and hammer have just mangled the old one which doesn't want to budge. I don't have a seal puller, and wonder if you can help please, so I can get the Landy back on the road. I have been careful not to damage the output seal housing or shaft (so far)..
Thanks

[island dormy]

Hi Rambler

Just keep working on it with the hammer and screwdriver it will eventaully come out enough that you can grab the edge with a vise grip or channal lock and pull it out. Try caving one side in towards the middle.

The heavy flange piece that the drive shaft bolts up to has to be perfect where it contacts the new oil seal. If it is rusty, pitted, or has a groove worn into it, the new seal will start leaking very soon. (Within 100 miles.) Rust or pits are easy to see but lots of folks ignore the groove worn into the flange and it leaks. If it is bad you may be able to get a speedi sleeve or just get a new flange.

When you install the new seal remember to clean everything and to put a little silicon around the outside edge (if it is a metal cased seal) if it is rubber where it contacts the output housing they say silcone is not needed but it would not hurt anyway. I tap the new seal in evenly with a great big socket that matches the outside seal dimension. A piece of plastic plumbing pipe may work also.
The inside of the seal has to have some grease packed into the lip where the seal rubs on the flange. If it is installed dry and you start drivng the seal will get burned before the transmision oil gets to it.
There is also supposed to be a 1/4 inch thick felt washer under the washer, under the lock nut and cotter pin for the flange the parts book some times omits this in the drawings.

Good luck Victor 1962 Dormobile

[Rambler]

Hi Victor,
Thank you very much for the helpful reply and suggestion. Sadly, it's gotten very mangled (the seal), so I was thinking it might be best to remove the speedo drive housing and brake back plate, and to drift the thing out from the back as the old seal is not going anywhere. This will also give me the opportunity to clean up all the mess the leaky seal has left behind, and see if there is any damage to the housing (hoping not!). I'm also hoping to get the series iii on the road in time for the arrival of the 1961 series ii project vehicle that's arriving in a week's time! All the best. Ian

[Dave_F]

You can pick up a seal removal tool at any auto parts store for under $20 bucks...or even less.

If you don't have the felt seal between the locknut washer just use a thin strip if the "Right Stuff" on the flange then again a small strip around the washer...let it sit for a couple of minutes and torque it up. If you don't do this or have the felt washer...it will leak, ruining your trans brake shoes.

[Rambler]

Thanks too Spanner Man,
Took off the speedo drive, seems easier to get at it this, though reassembling the brake parts will no doubt be a real chore.

Victor you mentioned applying silicon around the end of the output seal. Do you mean rtc silicon or silicon grease (for brakes) please? I'm not sure which will be best, grease to help it slide in or, sealant to glue the seal for a good fit?

Thanks,
Ian

[island dormy]

Hi Rambler

You should smear a little silicon sealent (not silicon grease) or (Hylomar which the British mechanics like to use) around the out side edge of the new seal which gets tapped into the output shaft housing. The inside of the seal which rubs against the smooth and rust free output flange has to be greased before it is installed or as I said when the driveshaft starts to turn the new seal will get burnt before the gear oil from the transfer case gets to it.

One other reason you may have a leaky seal is if the large nut with the cotter pin was loose when you removed it, this may cause a leak. It has to be torqued up to the correct figure.
If it is tightened up correctly and the brake drum is reinstalled you should not be able to push the brake drum up and down or sideways at all. If it moves you will have to remove speedometer shims until it stops moving. ( A long and painfull process of trial and error).

The haynes manual or the official Land rover repair manual discribes the process very well.

Victoe 1962 Dormobile

[Rambler]

Hi Victor,
Thanks very much for the clarification and helpful insight. I had read about the shims and end float adjustment (I think it's called). Thanks to their addition or subtraction. It looks like 4 shims were fitted, so I'm hoping all will be well with the full re installation. I have some sealant and will give this a try.
Best wishes,
Ian

[island dormy]

Hi Rambler

Try watching this you tube video it is in 3 parts and the fellow does a great job of explaning how to adjust for play in the out put shaft. ( If needed).

Just be careful if you remove to many shims and tighten it up to tight the transfer box may have to be removed to push the rear bearing cup back to free the bearing up. Just remove the thinest shim to start with. Hopefully you will not have to get into this process.

Victor

[Rambler]

Hi Victor,
Thanks very much. I've been watching steamwallys helpful youtube videos for a while now, and had looked at these three earlier today as a refresher. I've gotten everything back together today and found no lift or end float (well no play that I could feel or observe), and used all 4 shims that were fitted to start with. I tightened up the castle nut to 85ft lbs with a torque wrench and in doing so the felt washer really got squashed out wide like a pancake. Having not done this before I don't know if that is meant to happen? Or did I go a bit to tight?
Anyway, got the transmission brake back on and adjusted. The movement of the drive hub is a little stiff, but I can still spin this with my hand. I'm not sure if I've over tightened this and hope that in doing it to 85 ft lbs the rear bearing would not have been messed up. Perhaps it's just a little stiff on rotation because I hadn't refilled the transfer case with gear oil yet. Will do that in the morning and then fit the propshaft. Glad to have gotten this first important bit of maintenance done (lots more leaky seals to do in the near future (weather dependent hopefully before spring)!
All the best,
Ian

[island dormy]

Hi Rambler

The felt washer should not squish out, it should get pushed down the shaft by the large flat washer under the lock nut. Maybe remove the nut and washer and poke it down the splines a little then add some silicon sealent on top of the felt , then the washer and nut.

The drive hub is very stiff to turn by hand, thats the way they are.

Victor 1962 Dormobile

[Rambler]

Hi Victor,
Oh, that doesn't sound good. Hopefully, it's a simple thing to remedy. I will get a new washer on order. Very much appreciate your helpful advice.
Best wishes,
Ian