Series 2 109" -- Electrical Rebuild?

[oldgravy]

Start from scratch, or fix what's there?
Do an alternator conversion and switch to negative ground?

Took a look at my 109 pickup yesterday and cleaned 'er up a bit. There are a few worrying items, including a bodged frame patch (with holes in the welds), a slightly bent rear crossmember, and some especially sketchy drivetrain elements that have just been McGyver'ed together.

Item #1 on my list, however, is seeing if the engine will run. Since the switchgear is a mystery to me and there are wires running all over the place (not a single light is connected) I'm wondering if it's better to simply rip the old wiring out and replace it with a new harness acquired from somewhere like Rovers North or something.

My inclination is to take everything that carries electricity and tear it out, putting fresh stuff in so a) I know where it all goes and b) I know it isn't going to catch fire. At the same time, I'd like to consider converting to 'modern' electricity by fitting an alternator and switching to negative ground.

My questions are:

1) Is it worth doing or prohibitively expensive and frustrating, so just test the wiring that's there and fix faults?
2) Anyone else done the alternator swap and have some tips?
3) What the f*ck do all the switches in the panel do?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BUOHGDBCUAEZKgc.jpg

[Greg S]

Looks pretty normal! Seriously!

Someone has gone in there and used lots of white wire and a bit of purple. None of the wires look "bad" from the photo, just poorly run and not loomed together. I like the one just wrapped around the ?

There is very limited wiring and it is EASY to tidy up. Alternator conversion is SIMPLE as is a change to Negative earth. The generator has low output, you gain a lot of charging capacity by going to an alternator but loose the ability to push or hand-crank start it with a Totally dead or missing battery. (Go with the Alternator.) Delco Remy is as easy to convert as any, easier than most and is the most popular alternator in this part of the world. Gives you 70 amps for a common unit and if you are lazy you can even get a "one wire" unit. Not the best choice I understand but don't recall the argument against it.

Your wiring looks a mess, but it is just sloppy I suspect. From the photo, I'd say fix it. The bulk of the wire harness you would buy is hidden in the chassis and not what your looking at anyway. For a schematic diagram, go here http://www.vanislelandrovernetwork.com/ ... #article10 There is a link to a schematic in colour where it says "Click Here" just above the first photo of a wire.

[Greg S]

Looks like it is already converted to an alternator! The generator voltage regulator is already by-passed.

[oldgravy]

Thanks for the tip.

I have NO idea what the purple wire does. It drops down and hangs right where the front propshaft would be, if mine weren't a rusty mess sitting in a rubbermaid. I've no idea where it goes, seems to disappear above the fuel tank.

Shot of the left front side:

http://i.imgur.com/gSGCWXh.jpg?1

[Greg S]

Yup! A Delco Remy alternator, already installed. So you have a negative earth already.

One purple wire goes from your ignition coil to your distributor (should be a white and black wire). The one wound around the thingie must have at least one end attached to something. If not, take it out of there.

What year are we dealing with? There are 5 wires going to/from the engine.
Coil/distributor
oil pressure sensor (if it is electric) comes from oil filter area.
water temp sensor (if it is electric) goes to right side of head at waterpump
choke sensor goes to top of head, left side by water pump and has three machine screws holding the triangular base to the head.
Power wire from alternator to a main feed to battery, possibly but not necessarily through an ammeter.

There is one wire coming from the dash to the coil (from ignition switch)

One wire from the dash, into the engine bay and goes along the firewall, down the inside of the fender into the drivers footwell and is power for the dimmer switch.
There are two wires coming from the dimmer switch on the floor of the drivers footwell, across the middle of the firewall to the right side front of the engine bay where there is a collection of plug-ins for the headlights, a third wire comes from the dash along with these wires and is the high beam indicator-light power wire; it feeds back from the headlight connections. (Blue/red & Blue/white)
One wire from the dash to the collection of plugs for the headlights, this is for the parking lights (red)
two wires from the dash to the same collection of plugs, RT and LT turn signals.(Green/white & Green/red)
One wire coming from the start solenoid (where the main battery cable goes) to the front right corner of the engine bay, then to the horn (live wire, brown) then another wire FROM the horn (ground wire, black) back to the firewall and to the steering wheel. When you push the horn button it completes the horn circuit to ground.

The harness from the rear of the vehicle pops into the engine bay about where your stray purple wire is hanging down. There is a collection of bullet plugs here. 1) brakes 2)LT turn 3)RT turn 4)tail lights 5) Possibly fuel gauge wire comes in this package but doesn't go through the chassis with the other wires unless it is a Station Wagon with the rear mounted fuel tank, even then, mine was on top of the chassis rail rather than inside.

You might have a brake light wire from a pressure switch on the left frame rail behind the left front wheel, depends on year. This goes into the dash. (green)

The battery positive cable goes to one terminal of your starter solenoid, the other goes to the starter. (already mentioned the horn wire originating here) another wire goes from here to your ignition switch.

Someone might have added a windshield washer too. No idea where that wire might come from.

What have we got? Twenty-two wires? Make them look neat and you're good to go anywhere.

NOW- Lucas has all electrical items fitted with their own ground wire. These are the small diameter black wires that connected to common junctions. If you have a bad ground connection on anything, all kinds of strange things can and will happen. What has a ground wire? Head, turn, park, brake, tail lights (each one has it's own). Engine (from the battery) Chassis (from the battery), horn, wipers, instruments, interior light, test sockets and more.

[oldgravy]

Looks like a trip to the store for a circuit tester is in order. Thanks for the info!

Bonus point question, I suppose, is to figure out what the "thingie" is. One thing's for sure, that purple wire is heading aft somewhere... and I am pretty sure there's no harness going back to the tail lights. In fact not a single light is hooked up to anything.

Fun!

[Greg S]

Harness to the back should enter the chassis just below the "thingie" and comes out about six inches before the back of the rear crossmember, then wires plug into the bullet connectors to go to lights on each side.

[oldgravy]

Good to know. I have a sizeable collection of zip ties and the inclination to keep things as tidy as possible.

Previous owner was not able to get it started, so I suspect there is some electrical troubleshooting to do in the ignition side before much else is tackled.

[DrRangelove]

following with interest... wiring completely removed from my Series 2A project (before I aquired it) and I'll have to do a complete wiring job at some point!

[oldgravy]

I'd almost rather start from scratch! ;) Plan is to treat it like building blocks. I've done enough server cabinet cleanups in my day. Not going to get on it until the weekend of the 5th of Oct, I'll try and document with photos!

[DrRangelove]

Cheers Gravy... where abouts are you located by the way?

Dave

[oldgravy]

I live in Surrey; my 1960 109 is in Westba.... er... West Kelowna.

[dangerboy]

FWIW y'all, I did a complete rewire of a '59 109 with no previous experience and other than getting the wrong harness originally it was a piece of cake. The one sticky spot was the portion of the harness that goes down the starboard chassis tube. There is a cross bolt that can trap your wires as you try to fish them to the rear. Beware!! I had to cut a hole in the bottom of the chassis to get it through. There are a bunch of wiring diagrams around, if you pm me I can send you a few. Get the closest one and go to it. If you buy a premade harness from, say, Autosparks you may find there are a couple wires left over for things you don't have. They do them in the original colour codes, so check the green bible and match em up!
Good luck!

[Kelster1055]

FWIW y'all, I did a complete rewire of a '59 109 with no previous experience and other than getting the wrong harness originally it was a piece of cake. The one sticky spot was the portion of the harness that goes down the starboard chassis tube. There is a cross bolt that can trap your wires as you try to fish them to the rear. Beware!! I had to cut a hole in the bottom of the chassis to get it through. There are a bunch of wiring diagrams around, if you pm me I can send you a few. Get the closest one and go to it. If you buy a premade harness from, say, Autosparks you may find there are a couple wires left over for things you don't have. They do them in the original colour codes, so check the green bible and match em up!
Good luck!

Well Done! That's encouraging to hear it went well. I'm faced with a similar task as we speak. I'm changing my 1970 SIIA 88 over to diesel and doing a re-wire as well.

KB

[oldgravy]

I might be looking at a longer restoration. The wiring on my truck is sh!zt. Anyone used the Rovers North kit?

[LandyAndy]

I might be looking at a longer restoration. The wiring on my truck is sh!zt. Anyone used the Rovers North kit?

You'd be better off getting a loom from Autosparks, email them & get a quote... by my reckoning you should be in the $300 range... cheaper than RN and they can add any extras you might want at the same time.

[oldgravy]

Thanks Andy. Summer project!