DIESEL POWER- Which one to replace a petrol?

[Flyingcatfive]

Hi,

For an '83 110, I'm planning, (well my current inefficient and ill 3.5 petrol is suggesting I plan for a diesel fit up) I'm not sure how much this aluminum machine will keep running so its time to look at suitable options. If anyone has some info they can share - great! I appreciate it!

I'll be hauling a 2,000 to 3,000lb trailer from time to time - long distances plus using the 110 as the daily driver and for off road of course. I'm looking for daily economy, easy repairs/available parts, power and reliability. Aside from that, the diesel has to be a mechanical CRD (no EEC stuff).

So the fine balance between power, economy and outright affordability. Hybrids are not an option - already explored that technology! Other than hydrogen supplementation (which actually works!)

Some options would be a 300TDi, 200TDi, 5.9 cummins diesel (overkill) or ?

Any suggestions would be greatly helpful in all areas including reliable, resources for such an engine and possibly help to make the 'swap' as I don't think the funds are in place to have a shop do it for me. its also our only ride!

Thanks!

[DaveB]

I voted for 200tdi, cuz that's what I've got in my Range Rover. The 200 & 300 tdi are very similar, so either one would do the job adequately.

If you want a north american diesel with more power, I'd suggest taking a look at the GM 6.5 TD. This is a small block V8 diesel that was used in pickups and vans during the late 80s and 90s. They are also used in military humvees. They got quite a bit of bad press early on so were never really popular, then in 1994 they had an electronic fuel injection installed, which was problematic. However, if you get a later engine and install a 1993 (rebuilt of course) pump or a newer ex-military pump you are full mechanical.

I had one of these in a 1995 Chev pickup and it had ample power - when it wasn't having electronic pump problems. That was the only engine issues I had with it.

You'll have significantly more power than a 200 or 300 tdi, while not nearly as much power and torque as the cummins, and the engine won't have to work very hard to power your 110.

I've been thinking about this setup for my Discovery. If you do a search you'll find theres a number of guys in the US that have done this conversion, including one of our forum members, Aloharover.

Dave

[red90]

Any of those will work and provide enough power depending on your own definition of enough power. It depends how much work you want to go through. A Defender 200TDI with all the parts from the donor vehicle is a direct swap. No custom mods at all and easily done in a weekend buy yourself. All of the others involve custom work with increasing difficulty. Anything above the Rover TDIs will require proper axle upgrades.

[Flyingcatfive]

Thanks guys - good info here. Any idea what the 'realistic' towing capacity of the rover tdi? ... and Dave, any recollection of the 6.5 gm diesel economy? I'll look into this. I'm kind of scared of axel mods and all the extra work for a custom engine - I need to keep it practical this time around.

What about the Dodge sprint 3.0L 6cyl turbo diesel? It gets great economy and the power is there. I think its a mercedes engine - but electronic so I'd have to see if it can be modified easily. There are a few used ones around at the wreckers.
OM 647 inline five 20v DOHC 2,685 cc (163.8 cu in) 156 PS (115 kW; 154 hp) 330 N·m (243 ft·lbf

Jas

[HeadDamage]

I friend of mine has a 6.5 gm in a 110 and he gets around 25mpg US. I used to get around 20mpg US in my old 6.2 gm suburban. My 200tdi RR gets around 26mpg US (32mpg UK).

[red90]

Really, the economy will all be pretty close if you drive the same way.... If you choose to use the extra power, you will use more fuel. It is that simple.

Any non-Rover engine will require a lot of custom work, design and time. If you like doing custom engine builds, then go for it.

The Sprinter is a Mercedes van. It has nothing to do with Dodge other than a nameplate. I believe it is a typical common rail, VNT diesel. I've never heard of anyone attenmpting that conversion. You will need to figure it out on your own.

With any of these engines, keep in mind that a 50% increase in power and torque is easy to achieve with fairly low cost mods and reasonable reliability.

[seapotato]

Another one worth mentioning is the Cummins 4BT, basically a 4 cyl version of the 5.9 cummins, is the same at front and rear, so it bolts up to the same trannies, it's just missing two holes...

There's a whole website devoted to swapping it into different vehicles, a couple Rover swaps in there too if you look through the buildup section.

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/index.php


There was a guy on Pirate 4x4 building a 109 with a 4bt in the rover section as well.

I'm putting a toyota 3b in mine, but that's because I had the engine and the 5 speed in the shed waiting to go into something. Towing 3000lb's with it would be Sloooooow :lol:

[Doc Tari]

Something you should consider into the cost is the weight of engine/trans you choose to use as the larger lumps (Cummins, GM6.5) will require you do something with the front axle (strength), suspension, and maybe even the brakes, to handle the extra weight. Dodge pickups with the Cummins are known to wear their frontends out for this reason and they're bigger than the one under your Rover.

Pete

[N Hamelin]

I sure seem to see a lot of the Cummins 4BT converted trucks go up for sale shortly after the conversions. Might just be a coincindence, but I know one guy that did that conversion to his series, commented that he really liked the performance but that the Cummins 4BT was just too insanely loud to ever live with.

[Flyingcatfive]

great things to consider here - thanks for the input. It's fun to explore the alternatives. I'm one to take on a custom job but the timing of it just doesn't work when considered carefully.

I've been leaning towards the 300tdi for some time now - so maybe this time around if the right deal presents itself.

[JD]

I've been quite happy with my 2.8TGV. The vendor was very good with any issues during warranty. I received notification yesterday from the vendor that the 2.8 has now been manufacturer discontinued. Spares will be available for a long time to come yet and there are still some new engines in stock at this time.

JD
Vic BC

[franko]

HI guys,

I am swapping in a Mercedes OM617 diesel into my disco. Little tricky but we shall see how it all goes.

I'll post pics once i have some good ones to post. I think its a great diesel nice and smooth being a 5 cylinder.

Cheers

[franko]

HI guys,

I am swapping in a Mercedes OM617 diesel into my disco. Little tricky but we shall see how it all goes.

I'll post pics once i have some good ones to post. I think its a great diesel nice and smooth being a 5 cylinder.

Cheers

[Flyingcatfive]

Excellent choice. I looked into that engine and it would be a great fit especially with the extra power and reliability. I just don't have the time to customize.

Apparently from a few I was in touch with in the US, the r380 would not be a suitable transmission they were saying. I think the torque is at 295+ and hp at 160 - could be new spec. I'm sure it would work as its not too far off from the 2.8TGV - a heck of a lot cheaper though unless a rebuild is needed.

I got some local prices for rebuilding the 617 5cyl and approx 6K plus another 5k just to rebuild the injector pump! so its back over 10-11k for a rebuild and you still have something very old. There are a lot of these engines out there though and for cheap, so I can't see it being a problem finding a replacement if need be for a quick swap. A lot easier than finding a 300tdi I bet...

What did the adapter plate run you? and what transmission?

Good Luck

[franko]

800$ for the adapter plate and not sure what I have into the other adapter yet . But I am still using the Rover Trans.

[95d1]

Who is doing your adapters and could they make more?

[swamijake]

I'm in the process of fitting a 3.9 liter Volvo penta marine turbo diesel. Its big heavy and underpowered so should fit my rover classic well.