what to do with a 109

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rezdiver · #1 Post by **rezdiver** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:46 pm

so i took a chance and had a landrover brought to me from way out in tahsis. 1969 109 5door 2a.
well she is a charmer, i hate destroying a truck but i think she seems beyond reasonable repair. should i part it and scrap it or fix her up.

body is dented up, but actually not too bad, most of the aluminium is salvagable, roof is good, doors are rough, front floor bulkhead is gone, frame is shot.
she has a v8 chevy and GM tranny in it that were actually running and i can still turm her over by hand, still trying to see what transfercase its running, does not look rover but hard to tell. has not been run in a couple of years, front left wheel is seized up, broken springs, and disintegrated spring perches in the back. i have rot from the back of the frame to close to the middle, out riggers are shot, i think the front two are good. wheels are no good.
with all this rust and rot some one actually too the time to put in mew signal lights and headlight trim,
basically a complete restore, so should i spend 300 hours on it restoring or bin it and buy a good one.
Pics:
http://iltis.shutterfly.com/45
http://iltis.shutterfly.com/45#45
http://iltis.shutterfly.com/45#43

http://iltis.shutterfly.com/45#47

DaveB · #2 Post by **DaveB** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:26 am

Hope you didn't pay too much! Looks like quite a project. I would start with a new galvanized frame if you're gonna do anything to it. But you're right, it may just be a money pit and be better to part it out.

Dave

Greg S · #3 Post by **Greg S** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:26 am

Lots of parts are salvageable. Little things like the upper shoulder strap mount. Body looks pretty good but we can't see the steel frames the body panels are bent around. How's the interior? It looks like it is all there. Go for it!

I would question the 1969 part. If it was, it would have the headlights in the fenders.

rezdiver · #4 Post by **rezdiver** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:33 pm

thanks guys,
I paid 500 plus 200 for trailering it down. it does have a lot of parts that are salvagable. i just dont think paying 3000 for a frame and then spending all the hours is worth this project, when you can get a nice 109 for 4-10k.
plus i am not too keen on the v8 chevy and chevy tranny.

I could use the roof and sides for my iltis.

the fenders and doors are dented and i can see cracks in the aluminium in some places.
the inside is clean headliner is ripped as are the seats, but the steel frames all need work.

Greg, thanks for the vote of confidence to go for it but i am still not convinced, i will look at it in the driveway for a few days and see if it warms up on me.

I am a bit picky when it comes to restorations and I am afraid that by the end i will end up buying new everything anyways.

the registration said 1969, and it has a souhill plate on the dash.

Maybe it is good for parts if i find another truck with good frame and proper driveline.

Rob · #5 Post by **Rob** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:06 am

Seems a shame to chop-up a 109 5 door :(

rezdiver · #6 Post by **rezdiver** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:22 pm

Well, its starting to grow on me, not fully convinced yet but i am getting there.
I found out it has a chevy 283 mated to a Muncie gearbox, with a series transfercase. the muncie gearbox looks to be in all likelyhood an m22. could be an m21 but from all the specs i am leaning towards m22 close ratio rock crusher. will know for sure when i open her up.

I either have to find a frame or patch this one up. depending on time and cost.

Roverworks · #7 Post by **Roverworks** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:40 am

I have a new galvanized 109 V8 leaf sprung chassis and a carbed 3.5 V8 complete with rad and auxiliary...Would make a nice project with your body...

Alan
Rover Works BC Ltd

rezdiver · #8 Post by **rezdiver** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:21 pm

well at this time i have decided to hold on and restore her.
hopefully i can make it work.
I was looking at some info on my gearbox and found that i have the following ratios:
1st, 2.20
2nd, 1.64
third, 1.28
fourth, 1.00
reverse, 2.27

it has a series transfercase, any idea how this will perform with the V8 pushing it? I am still not sure what i have for axle ratios, but from looking at it looks stock series to me which i assume is 4.7
It rolled/dragged onto my driveway with 7.50/16 size tires.

is this combination going to work? seems a little off, especially first.

Greg S · #9 Post by **Greg S** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:06 pm

Having had a V-8 in a Land Rover with a 1.00 (direct) top gear through a LR T case, I can highly recommend a change of Differential gearing or an OD. V-8's aren't designed to run at 3500 to go 60mph. I had to have my foot on the throttle to go DOWN the 'Hat. Could get 3rd gear rubber tho.

rezdiver · #10 Post by **rezdiver** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:53 pm

good to know, i will have a look at the diffs to see what they have inside, I am not sure what the previous owner has done here.

I was more worried about first gear with the 2.2 gearing.

seapotato · #11 Post by **seapotato** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:54 am

man it's a small world, I have a little vw diesel for sale on used vic, and my rover is sorta parked behind it in the pic.

so in talking about the vw the rover came up, here's the quote....

" I had a 1969 LWB 109" 2a wagon like the one beside the VW, with a
> Safari top and boiler tube "cow catcher" bumper with a winch. Someone
> had dropped in a 283 small block Chev V8 and a Muncie Rockcrusher
> trans! Went like stink to 45 miles per hour.....and got less than 10
> mpg!
> Ah what a ride!!

I sent him your pics , sure sounds like the same truck eh?

cheers,
ryan

rezdiver · #12 Post by **rezdiver** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:22 am

that is too funny, it has to be the same truck, not too many with that description.
you should give him my contact info so i can get some more info regarding it out of him.

what VW diesel are you selling?

cheers,
Reza

Rob · #13 Post by **Rob** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:29 am

RRC diffs might fix the gear ratios to suit your V8. Haven't done it myself but from what I understand they are just about a direct bolt-in replacement on a series axle. I did a 289 conversion way back when Atlantic British sold an adaptor kit... could climb trees and burn rubber as long as the drivetrain and axle shafts held out....

Regards, Rob

rezdiver · #14 Post by **rezdiver** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:12 am

If the ratios work out i may just swap out both axles complete to discovery ones with 24 spline shafts.

what is the stock series transfercase gear ratios?

Rob · #15 Post by **Rob** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:28 am

Terri-Anne Wakeman does a great webpage on information regarding V8s in series rovers - should have all the info you seek including the numbers for series gear boxes and differential options. Her site can be found here:
http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/

Good luck!

rezdiver · #16 Post by **rezdiver** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:39 am

assuming my transfercase ratios are 2.35 and 1.148, if i drop in 3.54 diffs with 33 inch tires
i get the following from an online calculator
http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html

speeds in MPH
engine RPM 750- 2500- 3500
1st, 8- 27- 38
2nd, 11- 36- 50
3rd, 14- 47- 66
fourth, 18- 60- 85

crawl speed of 3.75MPH in 1st gear, low range, 750RPM

does this sound doable

Rob · #17 Post by **Rob** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:18 pm

Top end speed looks good but I think you would find the crawl a little too fast for some applications. A slightly smaller tire (say a 245/75R16) would still give you good OTR speed but decrease the crawl a little bit. Lots of good tires available in that size range and probably no rubbing or trimming issues either for a 109

rezdiver · #18 Post by **rezdiver** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:41 pm

i tried changing tire size for the online calculator and it only made a difference of a 1/4MPH between 31inch and 33 inch tires, but made a difference of 3-4 MPH in 4th gear at 2500 RPM slowing me down to 57MPH compared to 60.

Maybe i am not seeing it but do you think a crawl speed of under 4MPH at 750 RPM is too fast for offroading?

that first gear ratio being so close is hard to deal with and i dont believe there is another first gear ratio for this transmission.

Rob, you think you can help me some more if i call you over the phone to chat about this. Help and pointers are very much appreciated. Number?

seapotato · #19 Post by **seapotato** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:28 pm

So looks like it was that guys truck,he owned it in the early 90's...

whats your email ? and I'll pass it on to him.

( vw is a diesel scirocco...all hot rodded up :lol: )

I'd try working out the crawl ratios instead of the mph at low speeds, sortof an easier number to get your head around.
For instance, my truck (stockish) is around 40:1 which is barely slow enough..

I think this calculator works http://www.4lo.com/calc/gearratio.htm

rezdiver · #20 Post by **rezdiver** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:47 pm

with a 2.35 transfercase low range i am getting:
18.3:1 with a 3.54 diff
24.3:1 with a 4.7 diff

numbers seem pretty far off.

I PM'd you with my contact info, thanks for passing it on to him.

a diesel Scirocco? what motor does it have? did they ever come with a diesel? I am trying to find a diesel 1.9 TD to put in My VW Iltis.

Rob · #21 Post by **Rob** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:36 pm

Hey Rez

I am no expert regarding ratios and it has been a looooong time since I drove a V8 series however for comparison sake here are the over the ground gear and speed numbers from my 2001 D2 with 245/75R16s (flat dry ground)

Low Range
1st gear at idle 2.0 mph
4th gear at 2500 25mph

High Range
1st gear at idle 3.5 mph

My concern about your ratios and taller tires is that for slow speed you are going to be riding either the clutch or the brakes to keep your speed down. Hopefully there are some gear heads out there with more experience with these swaps to give the skinny on the numbers.

Regards, Rob
PS: That is a cool Scirroco you fellow are talking about, I've seen it before (the wheel and tires are from one of my old Jettas) - it is unusual but a cool swap - I am considering the same thing for one of my VW cabriolets

seapotato · #22 Post by **seapotato** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:07 am

rezdiver wrote:with a 2.35 transfercase low range i am getting:
18.3:1 with a 3.54 diff
24.3:1 with a 4.7 diff

numbers seem pretty far off.

I PM'd you with my contact info, thanks for passing it on to him.

a diesel Scirocco? what motor does it have? did they ever come with a diesel? I am trying to find a diesel 1.9 TD to put in My VW Iltis.

it's an 86 jetta td, so 1.6 I think? fun little car, goes like the proverbial raped ape..

well that 40 ish, is for my stock cruiser ( shoulda mentioned that... :lol: )

33's, 4.11 diffs, 4.9 first gear, and a 1.9 tcase. that's sorta the speed I'm used to , around 40:1 and it's barely adequate.

A common swap for cruisers has always been the old GM SM420 gearbox, has a super low granny first, 7:1 or something like which I think gets them down to 60:1, which apparently is a helluva lot nicer.

sm420's and 465's are around pretty cheap, should bolt up to your engine, not sure about tcase tho, must be an adapter in there or something?
When I built my 109 I seriously contemplated putting dual cases in it, so I could get down a lot lower and have more control, but decided eating that month was more important... :lol:

The Rover-Landers of BC

The Rover-Landers of BC

what to do with a 109

what to do with a 109