RRC or Disco I

[nick]

Looking at getting one for a daily driver/weekend warrior.
A few questions if you will.
Curious if one stands out as a better option?

If I got a RRC I would like a 95 (seems like the best year, and like the interior) but thats not set in stone.
If I got a Disco it would be a 96 or 97. Again people say they are the better years.
RRC seems a bit cheaper to buy.

Would one be more reliable than the other?
Not worried about the RRC air ride, as I would replace with and OME lift once it failed. :)
I know drivetrains are basically the same. But more for electrics etc... one cheaper/easier for parts? General maintenance and work? One more headaches than the other?

For fuel economy. People seem to be all over the board with mpg figures.
Rather than post what I see, curious what do people get? Driving reasonably and not to modded? Both highway and city mpg.

Finally, I find the odd manual disco. Thoughts on the manual tranny? I would prefer a manual, But there seems to be a big price premium (at least on the one I found in canada). How reliable are they?

Other general thoughts and advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Nick

[ANDYD]

Hi Nick,
I am a little bias because I have owned my 1991 RRC for 10 yrs and its been a excellent choice as far as off-road ability and on road comfort.
Its sure done its fair share of mountain climbing and river crossing and has been a very sturdy vehicle.

For the RRC, they were very uncomplicated up to 1989, then 1990 & 1991 they were just starting to add EFI and a few other electronic gadgets.
1992 onwards it all went more electronic and most serious off roaders would tend to stay away... Not saying that they were not very off road capable, but more because if they did break down on the trail they were getting harder to fix with a wooden stick and some duct tape!

It all depends how much you can fix yourself and how far up the trail you want to go!

As far as Early Discovery's go, I will have to let someone else chip in with their thoughts...
cheers,
Andy

[nick]

Thanks Andy,

I am more of the fix it myself kind of guy.
I have access to a full shop, hoist, etc...

As for how far up the trail I want to go... I still want to go places, but I'm not like I used to be 3-5 years ago.... I've learnt the last few hundred feet aren't worth it. I'll just spend forever getting unstuck anyways. :D :D I would rather throw my backpack on and hike instead.

For a RRC. I did a bunch of reading on rangerover.net (it seemed that the 89-91 range, had the most issues). Which years would you suggest? Or after about 20 years does it even matter? Does it just come down to price, millage, servicing and condition at this point? Personally I like the 95 interior better. But if one is more electrically sound....

Not set on a RRC, just trying to figure the pro's and con's of both relative to each other.

Thanks.
Nick.

[Rob]

I’ve had 2 RRCs and currently I have a 2001 Disco 2. Personally I loved my RRCs, off-road they were great and a pleasure on the road as well. Both were 1988 (so they had the gear drive transfer case – the best choice IMO). I loved the big windows, tall ride, smooth ride, great articulation, point and shoot simplicity (put it in gear and go) and the turning radius was awesome. I would not hesitate to take my RRC anywhere a series or defender was willing to venture. One of the RRCs was stock (3.5 EFI, standards tires, springs, etc). It was good off-road but the 2nd RRC I had was converted to a carb, had larger all-terrain tires and a slight suspension lift – it was amazing off-road (and decent on road too). Both were thirsty beasts… both also were getting pretty long in the tooth an some of the usual RRC problems were occurring – failing switches, inner body rust, aging interiors and leaky heads (as well as leaky everything else for that matter).

Late last fall I picked up a Disco 2 and was amazed how good it was in the snow and ice. I had to do a little work to make it better off-road (it really sucked on the mud hill at Founder’s day with smooth road tires). I have since upgraded to slightly larger and more aggressive tires and swapped out the airdam bumper with one that has been “trimmed” to improve the approach angle. I find the Disco much better on road than the RRCs (then again, it is newer so one might expect that to be a given but still, it is a great highway ride) and some of the interior refinements are nice improvements over the RRC (I like the large back door, higher ceiling and less intrusive seat switches) but in many ways it is very much like being in an RRC and has that same coil spring ‘magic carpet’ ride. Off road, with the new tires, it is great, I went on a run recently and it went everywhere the rest of the rigs could go and did as well as most and better than some. The hill descent and traction control worked well and other than a few comments about being a “plushmobile” and the occasional tail drag (it is a little long on the back end) it is a nice off road ride. It doesn’t turn quite as tight as the RRC and the articulation is not quite as good either as it has sway bars that the older RRCs don’t (though they can be disconnected).

Sure, having a rig that you can drive off road with AC going, listening to the stereo and sipping on a cup of coffee might seems sacrilegious but you know, after all those years of kidney busting it in series trucks on the trails I have really grown to appreciate the RRC and Disco line…

IMO either would be good choice (depending on condition and owner budget of course) as both have a similar power plant and drive line system but the newer Disco does have added features of airbags, anti-lock brakes and so forth that make it arguable safer (though also more complex). So far, other than some computer assessment work there hasn’t been anything on my D2 that I couldn’t fix myself and really not much to fix for that matter (it is my daily driver and is reliable).

Regards, Rob
PS: They are ALL gas hogs... sorry to say :cry:

[nick]

Hello Rob,

Thanks for your thoughts and experiences.
A few questions if I may.

both also were getting pretty long in the tooth an some of the usual RRC problems were occurring – failing switches, inner body rust, aging interiors and leaky heads (as well as leaky everything else for that matter).

Long in the tooth.... thats exactly my concern at the moment. Both rust and electrics.
I know D1's have a steel roof which rusts at the pillars, while RRC is Al roof.
RRC have door and gate rust issues. D1's have door or gate rust issues?
Anyone know when they started galvanizing the steel parts on Range Rovers and Discos?
Electrics similar or worse?

Personally, I like the RRC tailgate and allum roof. But I also like the disco 3rd row and extra space.
I think I am split 50/50. So I am looking at ownership costs, reliability differences, and just general headaches to help make up my mind.
One better or worse as a whole?

Sure, having a rig that you can drive off road with AC going, listening to the stereo and sipping on a cup of coffee might seems sacrilegious but you know, after all those years of kidney busting it in series trucks on the trails I have really grown to appreciate the RRC and Disco line…

Agreed! :D

IMO either would be good choice (depending on condition and owner budget of course) as both have a similar power plant and drive line system but the newer Disco does have added features of airbags, anti-lock brakes and so forth that make it arguable safer (though also more complex). So far, other than some computer assessment work there hasn’t been anything on my D2 that I couldn’t fix myself and really not much to fix for that matter (it is my daily driver and is reliable).

Budget. depends. Initially thought around $5000.
I have been looking and it seems like I can get a nice RRC for $4000-4500 and disco for $4000-5000.
Say in good shape, taken care of, and around 150-200Kms.
Seem reasonable?

I would spend more for the right truck. Especially if it's all ready built like I want, and been serviced and everything works etc... At the end of the day, I'm hoping to spend less than $7500 or so total, including OME lift + tires for a super solid driver.
Either get it nice and built allready, or spend less now & drive it. When stuff fails (or I can't wait anymore) I can mod it. EAS fails - get OME lift. Needs tires - gets 31" BFGs....etc.

Lets put it this way. How much do I need to spend? :)

PS: They are ALL gas hogs... sorry to say :cry:

Yeah just trying to determine how bad. :)
$250 vs $450 a month makes a difference.
I should mention I used to own a D1 for about 6 months (about 4 years ago).
Sold it because it was high millage and was too thirsty on fuel.
It got around 9mpg around town, and 12mpg on the highway. And that was driving nice, and running 31 bfg ats.
In retrospect, it probably needed new 02 sensors etc... But was still 300KMs.
Whatever I buy I am shooting for low KM and well maintained.

I see others posting: 12-15mpg around town and 17-22mpg on highway.
If I could get 13-14mpg around town, and 18-20 on the highway that would be good for me!
It would be driving nice and light mods (Say OME lift, 31" tires, and maybe arb+winch).
Possible?


Thanks!
N.

[rezdiver]

Nick,
I would say for capability the RRC and Disco 1 is exactly the same, not sure about the disco 2.
if your budget is 5000-7500 max then i would highly suggest going this route: this is referring to disco 1 and RRC's from my experience.
do not buy a rover that looks good clean and has all the receipts that will cost you 5000. they all have the same issues for the most part. find one with a great body and especially engine and do not worry about the rest. as most rover owners take their trucks to the mechanics and do not work on them on their own, they are coming up for cheap as dirt often as repair costs are pricier than buying another truck. you can find a clean rust free RRC or disco 1 for less than $2000, some times for less than $1000 if you have a bit of patience. best bet for an RRC is the LWB since as soon as the air suspension goes people get rid of them fast and cheap. if you are upgrading the suspension anyways its a great start.
at this price you can afford to buy a LT230 transfercase and replace the borgwarner on the RRC, have plenty left over for a full brake job, suspension lift, replace all broken bits and bushings, good tires and you will still be under your 7500 mark for a vehicle that is built to your specs.

It is very easy to get rid of the electric gremlins in the older models.

All this is just from my experience and ofcourse it will vary from everyone elses. I have owned 5 RRC's now and they all have very poor milage. if you are looking for good milage then RRC is not a good choice. I would assume the same for disco 1 for all the previously mentioned except the disco 1 already has the good transfer case. but i love the look of the RRC way better than any other rover. its all about the look :D

Also most disco 1's have manual seats and RRC have power seats, one more thing to go wrong, but easy fix.

also at those cheap prices buy 2, get a D1 and an RRC and put the best of both worlds into 1.



Reza

[rezdiver]

found this in victoria for you. a little pricy but pretty low milage.

says it was checked by the landrover dealer, if it was the one in vic i would not trust them with anything during inspections. i took mine in there for an inspections and after their 100 point check they told me that all my safety air bags were still ok. my rover did not have a single airbag in it as it was a 93...LOL, there was about a dozen discrepancies like that on the list.

http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/8988633

[nick]

Thanks for all the info Reza.

I saw that one in Victoria. The price seemed good to lots else out there. Also really liked the KMs, and it looks clean. I guess I need to watch the market longer. What do you think is fair for a truck like that? I have found a few I am interested in. Just not sure about fair prices versus asking prices.

Not in a huge rush, but at the same time, it would be nice to have something with 2-3 months or so. I'm not opposed to getting one and fixing it up as you suggested. I like that idea actually. Do they come up often? And do they tend to sell quickly? Also can they be driven with dead EAS? Just to get it home atleast? I live in Kimberley BC?

In regard to fuel economy (or lack of :) ), I know they ain't great. But 12 or 20mpg almost doubles the fuel bill. Any rough guesses.

Also thanks, I wasn't aware of the tcase issue. I will do a bunch of searching about that. Is it a simple swap over? Better gearing? Tuffer?

Also what about years? Any to look for or stay away from? I was thinkin 91-95. With my preference being a 95 (based on interior).

Also wondering, what sort of KM's do these trucks run before big issues pop up. Do they tend to wear out trannys at 300km? Head gaskets at xkms, bearing etc.. What is the weak points?

Sorry for all the questions. I appreciate your guys help.

Cheers,
N.

[rezdiver]

I would say without looking the one listed is good at 2-3000.
Eas issues is no problem to bypass, just email me and i can run you through it, for 10 bucks you can have a manual override and manual control.
i know i used to get around 350km to a full tank in the city.

Tcase swap is not very difficult, a few on the board have done it.

I believe 91 and newer will have more electrical issues, also they came up with ABS in 91 i believe, pre 90 used a brake servo which was more reliable but not as good braking performance.

the borgwarner Tcase is not bad at all, they actually perform very well. so you may not need to change it. also they are becoming much cheaper to find and are very easy to replace. a lot do the transfercase conversion to not have to worry about any issues. out of 5 rovers i only had issues with one and i changed out the viscous unit for another in 4 hours my first time doing it.

[nick]

Cool. Thanks for all the info Reza.
I am interested in the on in Victoria. Just not sure how to call the guy up and offer him $1500 less. :) That is the type of thing I would jump on for the right price (assuming rust if good). Especially for $2K!

Regarding the tcase, sounds good. Guess I will leave it until issues arise. It will probably give me warning before it goes (what goes in it?). I can't see a used 230 being to expensive. Good to hear its an easy swap too.

Cool to know about bypassing the EAS. I guess unless the the pump or air bag itself goes there is no point in changing.

Really appreciate your help.
Nick.

[DaveB]

Heres a 94 LWB in Vernon area... a little closer to look at. This one was kind of dirty from the winter and showed some rust, but ran well, and really didn't look too bad under it all. the owner was asking $4500, but has come down to $2000 as its exhibiting the first signs of either a failed transfer case or a failed CV joint. I would imaging he'd take $1500 if you held out 15 crisp $100 bills to him...

http://roverlanders.bc.ca/gallery-photo ... G_2762.jpg

More photos here:
http://roverlanders.bc.ca/gallery/view_ ... e=album159

I was considering it for a candidate for another 200tdi conversion, but the timing isn't right at the moment for me.

Just my two bits... after driving my RRC with a 200tdi over this past 3 months, I get 32 MPG with a light foot and 29-30 when in a rush. About 27 in town, so if you are a do-it-yourself type, I'd suggest you do it right and change it to a 200 or 300tdi from an early 90's UK Disco.

Happy hunting, Dave

[nick]

Thanks Dave. I will take a look.
How hard is it to deal with the rust on those?
Or am I better off to wait for one with less?

I would love a diesel. Do you have a swap thread from your conversion?
Quick questions are, how much work was it, and how much does it cost?

In regards to the transfer case? Any good threads come to mind for a swap?

Thanks guys!
Nick.

[rezdiver]

here you go, its or best offer.

offer him a case of beer.

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/cto/1172713922.html

[nick]

Thanks Reza.
I say it now, but I think I might want to start with something a little cleaner. Would rather a nice interior, and as little rust as possible. Afterall, its going to be my daily driver. Then I can try stay on top of it (clean up and por15 as needed).

How are the discos for rust?

N.

[DaveB]

The Rangies do seem to be quite susceptible to rust. I think its primarily due to their age, and that many lived on the coasts when they were young. (Land Rover had a specific marketing plan in North America to congregate their dealerships around coastal cities.) Every one I've looked at in the past year has had the cancer, but in most cases its hiding under floors, in rear door wells, and more or less hidden from view, so you have to look carefully.

A Disco 1, well cared for and outside the salt zone, like in eastern Washington or Oregon is another option, and they're virtually rust-free from what I've seen.

At the $$ some of these are going for, you can cut your teeth on just about any of them, though, drive it till the rust starts bugging you, then use that for your trail rig, and buy another less rusty truck for your town rig. Rust shouldn't be scaring you too much.

cheers, Dave

[rezdiver]

I love these trucks, where else can you find a truck originally priced at $80k selling for under a grand, you can spend 10k and bring her back to absolute mint and you are now driving aan 80k truck for under 15k fully loaded.

here is another one no EFI, simple classic
I love this one, wish it was a 2door.
http://vancouver.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehic ... Z125494779

[dave tebbutt]

Unfortunately that truck has a frame that has rusted completly thru and may other rust issues Like Dave says look very carefully since there is an inner body made of steel

[rezdiver]

that is too bad, I love the suttle differences of the older models, the gas cap, interior, front signal lights.

[nick]

Hey Guys,

Yes, I emailed about that 1984. I would do a fame swap, but it would need to be for the right price.

Also, big props to Dave. I met him today at the ABFM. He was great to talk too. Answer a lot of my questions. I can see myself doing a 200/300TDI swap if I ever have engine issues. Thanks. :)

I am pretty much settled on a RRC or Disco (there was a few other brands I was looking at). Now it just depends on what shows up for the right price, and when I have time to travel and get it. I liked the RRC in victoria, or a 95 LWB would be nice too. But we will see. what happens.

Cheers,
Nick

[tallergypsy]

I've owned Three Range Rovers 74, 89 and 93 and two disco Is a 95 manual (that I converted to 300Tdi) and a 97.

Of all of them I liked the discos best as I am 6'6 and the RRC has a lower roof line and I get a crick in the neck driving them.

The mechanical gearbox is not an issue in the disco if it is the R380 type.

An alternative to look at is to find a late Disco II with a blown engine in the states. They have a factory oil pump fault that demolishes the engine at over 1K miles and can be picked up in otherwise good nick for about $2500 on E bay. My friend Jeremy just bought one up from Arizona and is converting it to a 300Tdi on a total budget of about 6000. It is a very nice truck.

Ray

[nick]

The mechanical gearbox is not an issue in the disco if it is the R380 type.

Thanks for the info. I would like a 5speed.
I could always do later when I do a diesel conversion (guessing it would come with a LT77).

Do you know which 5speed this one would be?
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/cto/1169186153.html


Thanks,
N.