Canol Road 2009

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Bermuda110 · #76 Post by **Bermuda110** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:46 pm

Doc Tari wrote:What engine does your 110 have and what sort of consumption or range does it have?

Thanks,
Pete

Hey Pete, I currently have a 2.5na diesel. But that may change by then but for now well go with that. Would you like me to see if i can source any NATO jerry cans and see if I can get a group buy going. If you have any preliminary things that you want me to look into please PM me with a list.

Cheers

Doc Tari · #77 Post by **Doc Tari** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:33 pm

Thanks Cory, I'll update the list. I think starting a new thread for fuel cans would be great if you can get a discount by buying a large quantity. Another option is to check out Gorilla Surplus in Vancouver. I bought surplus military plastic fuel cans (made in Canada by Sceptor) that are indestructable and priced right. Maybe you can get a deal if you buy enough of them.

Regards,
Pete

Doc Tari · #78 Post by **Doc Tari** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:09 am

So JD and Shawn, does this mean you guys are in as support crew? :)

shawn doherty · #79 Post by **shawn doherty** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:09 am

Yes I'm behind you all the way! Ready to freight goods or hold camp. Or walk in and get you out.

red90 · #80 Post by **red90** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:01 am

Doc Tari wrote:IMO, you guys are being too conservative with your estimates of the range we'll need. I don't see needing 700km worth of fuel because that implies we go all the way to Norman Wells, and back to MacMillan. If we get to Norman Wells, fuel is available there. More likely, we won't get even close to NW so 600km round trip off road is more realistic. Since we'll top up before leaving the trailers, we should have no problem covering 600km with a few jerry cans on board each truck. This will get us back to the trailers where we can again refuel for the drive back to Ross River.

That is true, but you need to make that decision before you leave. If you only plan on a reduced distance off road, then you must stick with that plan and getting all of the way through can not be considered.

Dave_F wrote:I have 5 jerry cans 20x5=100L + 65L on board and if I average around 6 to 6.5K per litre that gives me a range of around 1000K. If it's 500K from Ross River and back, that still leaves me another 400-500K worth of fuel for "mucking about".

You are not adjusting for off road. Assume 15 l/100 km on road and 30 off road, IMO for a gas engine.

In the end, everyone needs to be on the same page and make sure they have a conservative amount of supplies and a properly equipped vehicle for this type of trip.

Doc Tari · #81 Post by **Doc Tari** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:14 am

How far we go will depend on how much fuel we can comfortably carry on the trail. We'll monitor consumption as we go and turn around when half the fuel (less a safety reserve) is gone.

My 7 ton Mog uses ~ 20L on the road and doesn't exceed 30L off road, do you really think you'll burn 30L/100km for a 2.5L Rover? If so, you need to buy an EconoMog to save on fuel... There's something I never would have imagined!

HeadDamage · #82 Post by **HeadDamage** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:46 am

I don't know if it would be 30L/100km for a gas rover or not but it will be shockingly bad compaired to a diesel rover. When we run trips out here the diesel rovers will have used a 1/4 to 1/2 a tank when the gas rovers are on fumes.

How about getting a blade and hoe on that Mog? Then we could do some real trail repairs ;)

John · #83 Post by **John** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:54 am

Maybe someone who ran the Mackenzie trail in a gas Rover can chime in here as to what their fuel economy was as I imagine they will be similar to this trip. I have a fair amount of off-roading and tripping under my belt but the Mackenzie trail trip was the longest, non-stop, low range only, stretch of off-roading that I had ever done and I came nowhere near close to judging what the economy of the 3.5 l V8 would be. On highway I have seen upwards of 24mpg with trip averages (off/on road) being high teens to 20mpg. I think I planned on maybe 12-14mpg for the Mackenzie off road section - I achieved 8mpg and came out on some borrowed chain saw mix (thanks Mark!!). My V8 has shown to get even or better fuel economy than a typical 2.25 l 4 banger on most trips that we have done.

rezdiver · #84 Post by **rezdiver** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:30 am

I have been reading this and this sounds like a great trip for all you brave explorers.

Just wanted to input have you guys considered what you will do incase of a major breakdown? as you are on a time limit will the vehicle be left to peril or will you pull it out under tow. this will add considerably to fuel consumption. also if you need to go back to base camp and pick up any parts and go back to service a vehicle that is also more consumption.

I wish i had the time to do this trip, in the ILTIS...

cheers,
Reza

red90 · #85 Post by **red90** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:56 am

Doc Tari wrote:...do you really think you'll burn 30L/100km for a 2.5L Rover? If so, you need to buy an EconoMog to save on fuel... There's something I never would have imagined!

The 15/30 is based on a lot of miles in a 3.5 V8 Disco. In fact, it can be worse than 30. The 2.5 l Series trucks don't seem to do any better from what I have seen.

For me, with the 200TDI 90, 10 on (gravel) roads and 18 off road based on multiple trips and I used less than anyone else on the Mackenzie trip. Bill I. (110/200TDI) was more like 11/20. The gas guys were not willing to release (or measure) their fuel consumption figures.

As stated above, everyone needs to ensure they have enough for the "planned" length with a healthy reserve for those unknowns. This is not the trip to run out of fuel or have an unfixable breakdown on. You have maybe a week or two up your sleeve before you are stuck for winter. Phil used an EXTRA 20 liters on the Mackenzie trip just from towing a RR on gravel roads for 70 km.

red90 · #86 Post by **red90** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:01 am

John wrote:...I achieved 8mpg and came out on some borrowed chain saw mix (thanks Mark!!).

Assuming that is imperial gallons, that is 35 l per 100 km.

Dave_F · #87 Post by **Dave_F** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:20 am

red90 wrote:
John wrote:...I achieved 8mpg and came out on some borrowed chain saw mix (thanks Mark!!).
Assuming that is imperial gallons, that is 35 l per 100 km.

GAAACK!!!! :shock:

Unless I'm gunning it the whole way off road I don't think I would use that much! I estimate off road to be using somewhere between 4-5 km/l: which works to somewhere around 20-25 l/100km. or 11-14 mpg. Obviously I would only go up with a nicely tuned truck...However I could be wrong...it's been known to happen. :D :lol:

Saying all this...who knows until we actually get up there and see what we're up against. If I started to get low I could always head back and hang out with my fellow Series owner Shawn and O'Doul.

Dave_F · #88 Post by **Dave_F** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:22 am

Doc Tari wrote:Andrew, I like your motivation to get packed and moving! I agree that we need to establish an equipment list but we should probably decide on dates first. August 15 - September 6 makes sense to a few of us but this is not cast in stone yet so if anyone has a conflict, now is the time to speak up.

These dates work for me!

HeadDamage · #89 Post by **HeadDamage** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:36 am

Aug 15th to Sept 6 could work for me baring any problems comming up. Now are we talking leaving the lower mainland on Aug 15th or being in the Yukon, other? For any Alberta based people like me it would likely make sense to meet up in Watson Lake Yukon. That is a two day drive from Calgary... when would the BC group likely reach there?

Doc Tari · #90 Post by **Doc Tari** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:05 pm

We would be leaving the Lower Mainland on August 15. If Watson Lake is the meeting point, we'll have to figure out the specific timing of that. Regardless of the detailed schedule stuff, Andrew and Dave F, it sounds like you're ok with the dates.

HeadDamage · #91 Post by **HeadDamage** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:26 pm

Are we looking at going up on hwy 37 or hwy 97 (aka Alaska hwy)? 97 would be a bit faster and we could meet up in Dawson Creek BC. Hwy 37 is nice but longer and you can side trip to Hyder Alaska, fantastic glaciers and the Grizzly Bears should be feeding on Samon there at that time of year.

It looks like a could just swing three weeks off Aug 15ht to Sept 6 for this. I've just got to see if the wife wants to come along now ;)

This is the route that I would take to get up there from Calgary:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/h ... olRoad.jpg

DaveB · #92 Post by **DaveB** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:36 pm

Back to fuel,
I was on the Mackenzie Trail with John in 2002 and with my own truck in 2005. I got much the same mileage as John did, 8 miles per imperial gallon, and this was with my gas powered 2.25 engine.

BTW, can we all decide on one format to describe our mileage? I'm voting for miles per imperial gallon, or as a second choice I'd go kilometers per litre, but the litres per hundred kilometers just screws my head around.

As far as meeting spots go, if we meet at Johnson's Crossing, YT, which is the turnoff onto the Canol Road, this accomodates travel from both routes. I estmate from the lower mainland to Johnson's Crossing its about 2500 KM drive, which in a Rover will take 3-4 days.

cheers, Dave

Dave_F · #93 Post by **Dave_F** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:59 pm

That I am! Dates Good for me.

HeadDamage · #94 Post by **HeadDamage** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:05 pm

Johnsons Crossing is bit out of the way. I would recomend the following route as being the fastest based on having driven both hwy 37 and 97 up to white horse in the past. 37 is shorter but it is a slow drive... would be good for the return trip if there is time left, stop in at Hyder and watch bears and such.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/h ... olRoad.jpg

DaveB · #95 Post by **DaveB** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:07 pm

Andrew can you post details of your route in the Yukon? When I ask google maps canada for a route to Ross River, or any point north of Ross River, it shows me a route that goes through Johnsons Crossing then northeast from there to Ross River. I'm just wondering what you're doing differently that results in a direct route from Watson Lake to Ross River?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that your map isn't accurate, but how did you get that result? These are the results I get:

http://roverlanders.bc.ca/gallery-photo ... _route.jpg

http://roverlanders.bc.ca/gallery-photo ... _route.jpg

Both of these go through Johnsons Crossing which is why I was suggesting it as a meeting point. If there's an alternate route -- perhaps with some offroad potential, well I won't argue with that!

Dave

JD · #96 Post by JD » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:41 pm

Loonie Laager here...

Lynn and I aren't sure yet if we can make the proposed dates this year. We had already booked vacation time in the 01 - 25 Aug period. We are talking though. Was kind of hoping this would end up being a 2010 thing. If we can go we will definately stay rear to staff the LS Laager. Perhaps some DII's would be good at the back too?

With an advanced laager fuel and food issues need only be calculated from that forward point on. Until the laager point is identified all calculations become questionable. I envisioned part of the LS fun would be dragging trailers back to the world to fill all the jerry cans up so new fuel would be available when the main packet came back down the trail. This will help the mogas owners to relax a bit.

Anyone spot a good laager point on the maps? Area needs to be flat and near a river. Preferably with good South and West open terain.

Medium weight wrecker (C60L or Diamond T anyone?) or MOG w/tow bar would be a real asset. Has to be bigger and stronger than the LR's but not too big so it can follow the inbound path.

JD

red90 · #97 Post by **red90** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:52 pm

This might help show the highways, Dave.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/Re ... Clip_2.jpg

Dave_F · #98 Post by **Dave_F** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:06 pm

Looks interesting and a possible alternative route. Question...are there any services on #4 or at the Alaska Hwy and this junction? The run from here looks to be (i'm guessing here...400K+or -???)...if we did come out on 37 we'd most likely need to resupply with food and gas before heading up?

Thoughts?

HeadDamage · #99 Post by **HeadDamage** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:21 pm

Yes there is gas at the junction of hwy 1 and hwy 4... in fact it is the town of Watson Lake. It is the place with the sign post forest:

http://www.watsonlake.ca/

http://www.yukoninfo.com/watson/watsonlakeinfo.htm

As for how I got google to draw that route... you have to know that the small road is there then zoom in on it and drag the other route over to it then it will accept it.

red90 · #100 Post by **red90** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:26 pm

Watson Lake to Ross River is 360 km. There is fuel in both locations.

The Rover-Landers of BC

The Rover-Landers of BC

Canol Road 2009

REMF