seized 200TDI
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dan
- Little Wheel
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:14 am
seized 200TDI
Hi everyone. I was turning the engine manually today( it sits in the back of my 110) when all of a sudden it stopped turning. It hit something and wouldn't turn anymore. I turned the nut the other way, and as it arrived at one full turn it hit something again and wouldn't turn anymore. The engines histoty is unknown to me and I am definitely no expert in engines. Was it wrong to turn the engine backwards? What could I be looking at ? The transmission is still attached to the engine, but was in neutral. Thanks.
Last edited by dan on Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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John
- Cylinder bore
- Posts: 469
- Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Langley, BC
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dan
- Little Wheel
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:14 am
re seized 200TDI
I pulled the valve cover off and the valves did move when I turned the crank.
One thing I did not yet mention is that the weight of the engine and mounted transmission(no transferbox) may have been supported by the oil pan during the drive from my old residence to here. I didn't hit any big bumps , but the engine did shift during the trip. The oil pan doesn't seem bent but I am not really sure what angles they have when they are intact. I only mention this because I have turned the engine in the past a few times and never did it do this. Perhaps I didn't turn it far enough to hit that stop point in the past.
The engine turns smoothly the little that it does turn. Thanks.
One thing I did not yet mention is that the weight of the engine and mounted transmission(no transferbox) may have been supported by the oil pan during the drive from my old residence to here. I didn't hit any big bumps , but the engine did shift during the trip. The oil pan doesn't seem bent but I am not really sure what angles they have when they are intact. I only mention this because I have turned the engine in the past a few times and never did it do this. Perhaps I didn't turn it far enough to hit that stop point in the past.
The engine turns smoothly the little that it does turn. Thanks.
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HeadDamage
- Horn Blower
- Posts: 574
- Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:21 pm
- Location: Calgary
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Rob
- Greasy Fingers
- Posts: 762
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:37 am
- Location: Ladysmith
Hi Dan
if it was me I would do the following....
- Mount the engine on an engine stand that allows me to rotate the block (with assumption that all the drive belts, bellhousing, flywheel and starter have been removed... if it is attached to a transmission something might be in the bellhousing so that is worth a look before you get too far along)
- remove the glow plugs (reduce compression and eliminate the chance of hydro lock from a cylinder inadvertently being filled with a liquid
- try barring over the motor at this point... won't go means it isn't compression related (though there could be things in the cylinders but we'll get to that later)
- drain all the fluids (to allow for some dissassembly and rotation)
- rotate it upside down, pull the oil pan and look inside (see any problems with the connectiong rods? Are all the pistons moving when you try to bar over the motor? Does it rotate fully now? If it does, it would seem to indicate the pan was hitting (though that doesn't seem likely to me) The worst it will cost you so far is a pan gasket and you have a chance to look at the cylinder walls)
- flip it right-side up and check the valve position, do they all move? Any look stuck in the open position that could be striking a piston as it tops out? (firgot to ask if there is any banging sounds when the motor stops rotating)
- I think the next step would be to open-up the timing cover and see if there is anything jamming up in there
if nothing has been found so far I think you have reached the point that you need to pull the head... I'd slack-off the valve train first to see if it frees-up the motor (stuck valve) but then the head probably has to come off (I would try the other things first to save on the cost and hassle of the head gasket and such but at the end of the day that will give you the best inside information (no pun intended) if everything else fails - unless you know someone with a small scope that will allow you to ook inside the cylinders through the injection hole.
These were the step i went through to figure out why my Nissan SD33 diesel was siezed, sorry to say it was't a happy ending (rusted cylinder liners).
Hope this helps, Rob
If it doesn't, I have a nice series 1 rover 2.0 gas engine that I'd trade you for that smelly old diesel :wink:
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if it was me I would do the following....
- Mount the engine on an engine stand that allows me to rotate the block (with assumption that all the drive belts, bellhousing, flywheel and starter have been removed... if it is attached to a transmission something might be in the bellhousing so that is worth a look before you get too far along)
- remove the glow plugs (reduce compression and eliminate the chance of hydro lock from a cylinder inadvertently being filled with a liquid
- try barring over the motor at this point... won't go means it isn't compression related (though there could be things in the cylinders but we'll get to that later)
- drain all the fluids (to allow for some dissassembly and rotation)
- rotate it upside down, pull the oil pan and look inside (see any problems with the connectiong rods? Are all the pistons moving when you try to bar over the motor? Does it rotate fully now? If it does, it would seem to indicate the pan was hitting (though that doesn't seem likely to me) The worst it will cost you so far is a pan gasket and you have a chance to look at the cylinder walls)
- flip it right-side up and check the valve position, do they all move? Any look stuck in the open position that could be striking a piston as it tops out? (firgot to ask if there is any banging sounds when the motor stops rotating)
- I think the next step would be to open-up the timing cover and see if there is anything jamming up in there
if nothing has been found so far I think you have reached the point that you need to pull the head... I'd slack-off the valve train first to see if it frees-up the motor (stuck valve) but then the head probably has to come off (I would try the other things first to save on the cost and hassle of the head gasket and such but at the end of the day that will give you the best inside information (no pun intended) if everything else fails - unless you know someone with a small scope that will allow you to ook inside the cylinders through the injection hole.
These were the step i went through to figure out why my Nissan SD33 diesel was siezed, sorry to say it was't a happy ending (rusted cylinder liners).
Hope this helps, Rob
If it doesn't, I have a nice series 1 rover 2.0 gas engine that I'd trade you for that smelly old diesel :wink:
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DaveB
- Defender of the World
- Posts: 1749
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 7:45 pm
- Location: Vernon, BC
Some good advice so far... I would do what Rob says, but take a very close look at the connecting rods while you have the pan off, which John alluded to. On the 200 tdi, there is very little clearance between the rods and the bottom of the cylinder walls. As a result, even a very slightly bent rod can cause a jam, as Andrew can attest to...
I was surprised when I rebuilt my 200 tdi how tight the rods fit, so its definitely something that would instantly cause an engine to stop rotating freely. Now, why is the rod bent...? Lots of possible reasons here, but in my experience a bent rod is always a symptom, not the core problem.
Happy hunting... Dave
I was surprised when I rebuilt my 200 tdi how tight the rods fit, so its definitely something that would instantly cause an engine to stop rotating freely. Now, why is the rod bent...? Lots of possible reasons here, but in my experience a bent rod is always a symptom, not the core problem.
Happy hunting... Dave
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dan
- Little Wheel
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:14 am
seized 200TDI
Well it looks like I have my work cut out for me. Thanks for the pointers. At least I know here to start.
Does anyone know where to get a manual (pdf if poss) for the 200 engine? My Spidy senses are telling me that this engine will have to be rebuilt. Again, thanks for the help. Dan.
Does anyone know where to get a manual (pdf if poss) for the 200 engine? My Spidy senses are telling me that this engine will have to be rebuilt. Again, thanks for the help. Dan.
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Roverworks
Ahhh…Just a minute… before you pull the tool box out….
Go back and re-check your trans is in neutral then check the bolts for the rear drive shaft attachment are pulled all the way through the rear flange (and front output flange). If they are not pulled all the way through they interfere/jam against other protruding bolts and the result is exactly as you describe. Might be worth checking before you rebuild the engine!
Alan Simpson
Rover Works B.C. Ltd
Go back and re-check your trans is in neutral then check the bolts for the rear drive shaft attachment are pulled all the way through the rear flange (and front output flange). If they are not pulled all the way through they interfere/jam against other protruding bolts and the result is exactly as you describe. Might be worth checking before you rebuild the engine!
Alan Simpson
Rover Works B.C. Ltd