Another "about to buy my first rover" thread

[dfritter]

First off, let me introduce myself. I'm Dan.

And I'm somewhat concerned, being a complete Rover rookie. I originally intended to move from my Camaro into a Jeep of sorts, but changed my mind when every Tom, Dick, and Harry with a rust-free CJ wanted more than my kidneys are worth for their vehicle. Not worth it; I like my kidneys, I grew them myself. Then came the Toyota FJ40 obsession, admittedly quickly quelled courtesy of a liberal application of corrosion, rust, oxidation, and expensive parts.

So, wandering into the drill hall, my regimental sergeant major's red Series caught my eye. A quickly whispered "Ah ha!" may have escaped my lips, and the search began. Which landed me here.

Now, I'm considering something of a Series vintage, but would like something with a bouquet of at least moderate reliability and purchasing decision aftertaste of victory. I won't lie, I'm considering Jim's '73 Series III 88 inch that's posted in the for sale section. From what I can tell, it looks good, runs fine, and the repairs required are easily within my grasp (and toolbox). But my questions center around more general notions of Series III ownership; like, what kind of reliability can I expect? I understand they're older vehicles that will require diligence and regular maintenance, and that's fantastic, but I don't want something that'll be immobilized by broken parts on a weekly basis. Next, I live in Tsawwassen, which means copious amounts of highway driving to get... well... anywhere. How can I expect a Series III to behave on the highway, and how comfortable will I be? I again realize this isn't a Lexus LS600hL, but I also don't want to feel like I should be getting my Last Rites until I hit Richmond, where that's just a given. And finally, what sort of fuel economy can I expect?

It wouldn't be my daily driver, I have press cars for that, but in the summer there's little better than being able to head out for an impromptu camping trip, or tooling around sans roof/doors, and in the winter knowing that you can get around regardless of snowfall. As far as I can tell, an older Series looks like a fantastic idea... but we all know how fantastic ideas often end. Help me out!

PS: Glad you guys liked the Trucks Plus coverage!

[yuppa]

Yeah that rover looks totally sweet!

Thats pretty much the style of rover i've been dreaming of since I was a kid, and unless I can afford a defender, series III will be the next rover I get..

While I can't comment on gas mileage, im reckon their more reliable then most newer cars.. Simple is best in my opinion.

[John]

Dan,

Reliability as a daily driver will depend on the mechanical soundness of the vehicle. If is it well maintained it will do fine as a daily driver - the converse if also true. No rocket science there. Assuming that you are starting with or bring the vehicle up to a high standard or repair, how much maintenance is required on a regular basis will depend on how well you drive and how demanding your daily commute is. I have a fair few miles under my belt in Series vehicles as daily drivers and they can be a lot of fun but for high mileage drives you will definitely be doing more maintenance on a series vehicle than you would on a more "modern" coil sprung Rover given the same use. They are very simple vehicles though so if you can turn a few wrenches you should have a lot of fun with ownership, assuming that you start with the right vehicle.

Buy strictly on overall mechanical soundness, don't get fooled by a shiny new paint job and cosmetic tiddling.

Have fun with your search!

[Bill E.]

Hi Dan,
I'll echo all of John's sentiments, series vehicles will take alot of knocks and keep on chugging, chugging being the operative word. Not much beats a Landrover utility vehicle for simplicity, durability or funk. That being said they can be a chore in high speed situations. Noise and strain of high speed driving can take their toll on the truck and your sanity. Like John says the coil sprung trucks give a bit more modicum of highway user friendliness but in most respects they are all pretty rough and ready. You can do things to help an older truck with 21st century life. Things like overdrives, sound deadening, headliner and new rubber seals will go some way to separating you from the elements. A good, sound, well maintained Rover could start to approach the value of your kidneys and you might need both of them to live a happy life off-road. Jeeps and Toyotas are not much different in as much as one worth owning will not be cheap. John has given you a common warning that is well worth heeding, don't get sucked in by a nice paint job and a new set of seats. A well maintained Rover that has quality parts and upgrades will take you around the world and there are not many other vehicles that exude the cache' and "street cred" of Landrover. JD power and associates and Consumer Reports be damned, get a series truck and revel in the smell of hypoy on your best sweatshirt :wink:

[DaveB]

I've got to chime in with Bill and John here. For short commutes, to and from work and recreational activities, my Seires IIa is great fun to drive, but longer trips it can be a chore, what with the noise, fairly harsh suspension, bouncyness of short wheelbase ride, etc. — did I mention the noise?! Well mine is an exception in that department as I installed a turbo diesel and no amount of sound deadening will cover the diesel's volume. To some degree, I think the same could be said about most jeeps and Toyotas too — at least the ones that I've had rides in. All that being said, I drove mine down to the ABFM in Vancouver from here in the north Okanagan a couple of weekends ago and toodled around Vancouver for 2 days doing work stuff — and I'm driving it up to Prince George next week, so you bet it can be your daily driver!

One thing I do like about my series truck is it's capability of getting you home, one way or another, in just about every situation. No electronics, simple electrics, engineering by Mechano, well you get the idea.

Both Bill and John alluded to the later model coil sprung trucks as well. If you're looking for a low cost 4x4 that has a great combination of "everything" I'd look at one of the early Discoveries or Range Rover Classics as your first Land Rover. Still fairly simple, but much more comfort and the sticker prices are dropping every day. For example the Discovery for sale in Kelowna with a 5 speed manual gearbox, Old Man Emu suspension, etc. at $6300. Man that's a lot of truck for the money.

happy hunting.
Dave

[dfritter]

Thanks guys, I understand where you're going with the coil spring models, but I think a Series has exactly what I'm looking for... character. I have the fortunate job of testing cars, so I have access to a brand spanking new comfortable [insert car here] every week, so it'd technically be my toy, but I want it to be a toy I can tinker with, not a toy I need to tinker with. I'm looking for something I can improve upon on my own schedule, not repair every day. I can live with some discomfort down the highway (I have a girlfriend-annoying habit of driving convertibles with the top down in February, too), and lord knows the Camaro's lack of real mufflers combined with a 3,500 rpm engine speed at 90 kph and road-race prepped suspension hardly make it a treat! But I think it'll make up for it in the simplicity, purposefulness, and practicality (they look to be about the perfect size for two people and a boatload of camping gear!) I've only got a few weeks before I'm heading out for some military training for the remainder of the summer, but I look forward to welcoming a Rover into the driveway and coming out and joining you all on some trips this fall (with some Rover-destined army pay in my pocket!)

[Greg S]

Am I allowed to add my 2 bits? My daily driver has been in the shop for 3 years while I fix it. Due to rust problems. It is a 1970 109 leaf sprung Series 2A. For about 100,000 miles, it was my daily driver for 6 years, and family car when my wife and 2 kids went on vacation, including a 4300 mile and a 5000 mile trip. Annually I would go on a 1500 to 2000 mile trip to the Kootneys and into Alberta. It has stock drive train but is suspended on Parabolic springs and my but is suspended on VW upholstery. Without the Parabolics, you may not enjoy the ride. With them, it is smoother than some of the other vehicles on the road. Yes! I did have a motor blow up and need replacing, it had between 350,000 and 450,000 miles on it be my calculations and was a lot cheaper to replace than a Chev or Ford. You can get between 18 and 22 mpg from what I've heard; I usually got about 19 mpg (Imperial) with the larger 109 and have read about claims of 24 but I'm skeptical about that good of mileage with a gasoline engine. There is a lot of play in the drive train and I never really liked it in Vancouver stop-and-go traffic especially on hills where you shuffle uphill half a car length at a time.

Buy the thing, make sure it has Parabolics, or put them on. Then try it out for 6 months or a year. If it isn't for you, sell it and you've lost very little money compared to any other vehicle you'd buy. Jim has done a lot of loving work to his 88 but it is being displaced by love for another car (Lotus).

[John]

If I may,

- 2 or more step brakes
- loose steering
- driveline clunks or "a lot of play in the drivetrain"
- faulty electrics
- vapour lock

are not characteristic of a Series Land Rover in top mechanical condition. Do not let anyone tell you otherwise. This is not to say that they are not characteristics which are more common than not just that if you experience them and are disheartened - fix it.

[tallergypsy]

We just "retired' to collector plate status our 1988 88. We've had it six years first as a demo vehicle in Europe (where it traveled as far North as Norway and as far south a Spain. It'd been in BC for three years and for the last two it's been my partners only vehicle. (She just bought a Boxster). All this time it's been dead reliable. Get a new carb, clean out the fuel tank and fit a Ducillier carb. Fit two new rear side shafts as they fatigue out. Check the oil levels. And you wont get stuck by the side of the road.

Ray

[dfritter]

Well, I actually took Jim's old '73 Series III to it's new home here in Delta. Thus far I'm loving it, just picking up on the prime tinkering areas... in fact, I think I've spent more time in and around it in the past two days than I have away from it. Steering's great, brakes work fine, the motor pulls to 90 kph easily (if slowly), and it's just generally entertaining to drive! I look forward to being pretty darn active in the community, but I'll be taking a couple months hiatus for now thanks to the good old Canadian Armed Forces requiring me to actually work for my money.