The New Defender

[Crs]

I just read it is NOT goes to be the DC100 concept vehicle. It also seems that the Defender will soldier on for a while longer. :D

[Russ]

Even as a dealer we're only getting rumours, but the idea is 2015-2016 and that it will be made available to the North American market. It's meant to be positioned as the entry-level model for the brand, so there is potential that it may come with real coils and no air.

What I do know is that none of the prototypes you see are the finished product, and may in fact end up bearing no resemblance to the actual release. They plan to spend some time on it.

[skeena river rover]

I hope they going to cancel it for good! It is not even worthy of carrying the name defender!!!!!!

[e.prevost94]

I hope they going to cancel it for good! It is not even worthy of carrying the name defender!!!!!!

Let alone the green oval.

[skeena river rover]

Yep you are absolutely right!

[discojonny]

you shouldn't be so quick to shoot it down, it doesn't even exist yet! give it a chance, it may be the best option for a real offroad truck in the 21st century. We will have to wait and see.

[skeena river rover]

That might be! But have you looked at it? It is uglier than s...t. I know some might like it but it is a hybrid between a mini cooper country man of some sort and any other suv.
Just 4x4 capabilities does not make it a land rover. And to replace the real defender that has been in service for almost 30 years with this toy car is just defender un worthy.. Land rover is heritage, a life style. I do not think the new defender will fit in those sentences.
But that is just my opinion. It does not even come close with a defender. If you would replace a car that has been is service for almost 30 years that is considered "The best 4x4" and a statement in the 4x4 industry you should see some of that back in the new defender.
Well i can not recognize anything that looks like a defender.
I do not like the new Range rover looks like a ford explorer! I do not like the range rover evoque. Looks like a Kia. I bet when that hit the market and i put a KIA logo on it nobody will notice it was a range rover.
The people at TATA do not have the feeling, essence what the brand land rover means!


That is just my opinion :D

[e.prevost94]

That might be! But have you looked at it? It is uglier than s...t. I know some might like it but it is a hybrid between a mini cooper country man of some sort and any other suv.
Just 4x4 capabilities does not make it a land rover. And to replace the real defender that has been in service for almost 30 years with this toy car is just defender un worthy.. Land rover is heritage, a life style. I do not think the new defender will fit in those sentences.
But that is just my opinion. It does not even come close with a defender. If you would replace a car that has been is service for almost 30 years that is considered "The best 4x4" and a statement in the 4x4 industry you should see some of that back in the new defender.
Well i can not recognize anything that looks like a defender.
I do not like the new Range rover looks like a ford explorer! I do not like the range rover evoque. Looks like a Kia. I bet when that hit the market and i put a KIA logo on it nobody will notice it was a range rover.
The people at TATA do not have the feeling, essence what the brand land rover means!


That is just my opinion :D

I agree with most of your points. However, I do believe that there is a need for an update. I'm not saying turn it into some stupid Hyundai, but there is room for improvement. Keep the stuff that we all love about the current defender, and fix the stuff we don't. Like keep the simplicity. Solid axles, small simple diesel, manual transmission, coil springs, and large cargo compacity. But should touch up on stuff like passenger comfort. I love defenders, but they aren't exactly the best place to be for an extended period of time. Maybe fit a better heater, and improve driving characteristics (IE making it bearable at highway speeds). The proposed defender is not a worthy successor. Land Rover needs to keep making something useful, and stop ruining the trucks we love.

[Russ]

We have a similar discussion to this all the time on the jeep board I'm part of. What usually comes of it is that the days of solid axles are almost gone. There are very few who have kept with it this far, but even the remaining options will probably become IFS at minimum on the next redesign or two. Land Rover is not going to let themselves screw up a replacement that wears the name "defender". I always laughed off the new Landy's as off road capable until I had a chance to work with them and try out the technologies. Nobody can deny that the LR4/3's suspension is amazing at articulation and leveling the vehicle.... Even if most people switch them over to springs eventually. I'm seeing the progress that's being made with the vehicles from a "wheeler's" perspective behind the scenes, and althought nobody knows what the outcome will be I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt on making it worthy.

Whether anyone likes it or not, the new Range Rover is by far and hands down the single most capable off road vehicle in that size that someone can buy from factory here in 2013. The G Wagon even lacks in overall off road capability.

Another example of why I'm with the TATA direction is what happened with the Jaguar concept that they've been developing for 30 years. All of a sudden there was money being put into the company instead of taken out like what was going on with Ford.

I'm confident they'll impress.... Hopeful too as I represent them :)

[e.prevost94]

With all do respect, I think you're on the wrong site. If you want to advertise, I'm sure you can take up ad space, but if you are trying to endorse your company, and drum up sales, please don't pull this crap here.

[Russ]

I'm not advertising.... No mention of where I work. I'm just giving a different perspective on the whole thing.... And one that most people wouldn't get unless they work for the company.

Would I love to see all companies offer a solid axle option for vehicles that are meant for off road? For sure I would. All I'm saying is that cars are built for the masses and unfortunately independent suspension is where everyone is moving to. Just as I put faith in Jeep to do the right thing if/when they end up making a Wrangler without solid axles (dread it), I'm sure LR will also.

[e.prevost94]

I'm confident they'll impress.... Hopeful too as I represent them :)

Yeah, real independent perspective.

[discojonny]

I don't see why you have to get so nasty to Russ, we all love rovers, thats why we are on this site, whats wrong with saying he likes the new trucks? Do you really think he is trying to sell us a truck? We all know none of us are going to a dealer to buy a new truck. As for the new Defender I think you are all forgetting that it is a CONCEPT truck, not what will be produced. Why not be hopefull that it will be a truck worthy of the name instead of bashing it and TATA before they have even left the gate.

[e.prevost94]

I don't see why you have to get so nasty to Russ, we all love rovers, thats why we are on this site, whats wrong with saying he likes the new trucks? Do you really think he is trying to sell us a truck? We all know none of us are going to a dealer to buy a new truck. As for the new Defender I think you are all forgetting that it is a CONCEPT truck, not what will be produced. Why not be hopefull that it will be a truck worthy of the name instead of bashing it and TATA before they have even left the gate.

I just can't really wrap my head around this. I meet Russ at the toy drive up at Harrison drive, and he seems like a good guy. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but I really can't help but feel that he's here for promotion. He doesn't own a Rover, he owns a Jeep. And he works for a dealership. I suppose we will have to wait and see what Tata decides to do, but I think we can all agree that I hope they don't use the DC100.

[Dave_F]

ALL...We at the Roverlanders all love our Land Rovers, but that does not mean we are an exclusive Club. We welcome anyone, and "any ride" that wants to join us for some camaraderie and fun off roading. We have members who drive Jeeps, Fords, Toyota's, etc.

Having a Defender as my daily driver I like many others decry the DC100 concept from Land Rover as an unsuitable replacement for our beloved Defenders, however saying that it is inevitable that this model (Defender) will eventually be replaced by something new.

I do have to agree with Russ that the most capable "out of the box" 4x4 on the market currently is the new Range Rover. Unfortunately most of us will never be able to afford a $100K+ vehicle to go bashing around in the bush with, and the vast majority of these vehicles will rarely...if ever be driven off-road.

I would love to see a Defender replacement that would satisfy and enhance what we already know and love...however I doubt that this will happen. The success of JLR under Tata has NOT been driven by Defender sales, rather the new Evoque, LR4, but mostly the Range Rover. The company would not have survived just selling "solid axle" Defenders.

As I work in manufacturing I have seen directly a fantastic product discontinued because the volumes just are not there to support it...you have to sell a lot of a particular product in order for it to be justifiable from a production aspect.

Russ has joined our club not because he works for JLR, rather because he enjoys the brand...and the people who purchase them, and what they do with them. Frankly having some "inside" information is a benefit to all of us LR owners and I welcome him and his opinions to our forum.

The Roverlanders Executive do watch the forum...and if we deem that it is not being used in it's intended manner we take action and rectify the situation.

Let's keep the dialogue civil, constructive, informative and most importantly fun.

Cheers and Ho Ho Ho,

Dave Fraser
VP Roverlanders

[e.prevost94]

Back to the original topic, does anybody know if they plan to go unibody?

[TOLON]

This article includes illustration of the 16 models Land Rover plans to produce...
LWB Defender, "baby" version & cabriolet. It's a few weeks old, might be new info out now...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/a ... tment.html

[Dave_F]

Nobody knows what is coming down the pipe until they launch it.

I believe they realized the err of their ways on the DC100 and although we still may see this model it will not be the Defender replacement...that is still under wraps by JLR...although that could change as well.

I have to chuckle at the discussions on all the boards regarding this issue...Change is inevitable and a foregone conclusion is that the Defender as we know it will never - ever - be sold here in N.America due to emissions, crash tests etc...

Having wheeled with all manners of LRovers, I must say that my next purchase will more than likely be either and LR3/4...fantastic off-road, comfortable, spacious, good heater, air conditioning, etc...and really the price on early LR3's is now closing in on $15K, makes this a viable choice for an off-roader. I would never take the LR3/4 up into places like the Canol Road (due to the mass of electrics) , however for local runs it sure would be more than suitable.

Saying that I am not getting rid of my 110...they will be burying me in it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[e.prevost94]

I really can't wrap my head around independent suspension. I can defiantly see the benifit of road comfort, but really can't see it doing quite as well as a solid axle counterpart on the trails.

[TOLON]

True, but I think Gerry McGovern has a pretty good idea of what will be launched. The models shown in the article are from his slide show....

[Dave_F]

I really can't wrap my head around independent suspension. I can defiantly see the benifit of road comfort, but really can't see it doing quite as well as a solid axle counterpart on the trails.

I have seen first hand an LR3 off-road and it did everything that the solid axles did...with ease, comfort, air con, good heater etc...and all with the push of a button...however that is what scares me a little...all the electronics, and the potential repair costs of breaking something...or anything for that matter that needs fixing $$$$$ :shock:

Saying that I do love the simplicity of the solid axle trucks, and for real hard core off-roading they can't be beat...due to the simplicity of the entire package, ease of repair and lack of computers.

As far as the DC100 I recently read an article that states from JLR that the DC100 will NOT be the Defender replacement....If I can find out where I read this I will post it.

[rezdiver]

I really can't wrap my head around independent suspension. I can defiantly see the benifit of road comfort, but really can't see it doing quite as well as a solid axle counterpart on the trails.

why do you feel independant suspension is a bad thing?

I am looking forward to see what Rover brings to the table, they have a good history of pioneering new technology and paving the way like they did with the start of the air suspension, it has evolved and other manufacturers have followed suit.

Having wheeled with all manners of LRovers, I must say that my next purchase will more than likely be either and LR3/4...fantastic off-road, comfortable, spacious, good heater, air conditioning, etc...and really the price on early LR3's is now closing in on $15K, makes this a viable choice for an off-roader. I would never take the LR3/4 up into places like the Canol Road (due to the mass of electrics) , however for local runs it sure would be more than suitable.

Saying that I am not getting rid of my 110...they will be burying me in it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is a great point Dave, the LR3 is a very capable machine and I am also looking at getting into one as prices are becoming more resonable. as for driving it on the Canol, why not. in all honesty all the electronics and computers can be serviced or made to work in the field. how many years did it take you to get to know every nut and bolt like the back of your hand on your rover. a couple of months of research and reading can make you just as much of a pro in the electronics side, It may require a laptop and a software program but all circuits can be bypassed. change is good, technology is getting much better.

If you are stuck in your ways you will still be complaining about the air suspension on a range rover classic then maybe a vehicle that predates the 90's is just the thing for you.

I love the defender as it is, simple and archaic, but I also drive a simple diesel Iltis (Independand suspension). And archaic is just what the defender is compared to todays standards.

Even if they did keep the body and drivetrain style, it would be loaded to the max with electronics and gadgets to make it fit to todays standards and then there would still be people complaining about that change.

[e.prevost94]

I really can't wrap my head around independent suspension. I can defiantly see the benifit of road comfort, but really can't see it doing quite as well as a solid axle counterpart on the trails.

why do you feel independant suspension is a bad thing?

I am looking forward to see what Rover brings to the table, they have a good history of pioneering new technology and paving the way like they did with the start of the air suspension, it has evolved and other manufacturers have followed

I'm not necessarily saying that its bad outright. Onroad comfort is better, and considering most Rover owners don't take their Rovers to do what they're ment to do, this isn't a problem. I suppose I prefure the stuff that's provin itself time and time again. Independent suspension is pretty limited as far as modification goes. They're pretty hard to lift without losing downwards articulation. And as Dave mentioned, they are pretty complicated. The solid axle has always been the choice for simplicity. I don't think just because its new, it's better. It has its strong points, but I don't think I'm sold quite yet.

[rezdiver]

realistically you are not going to lift a capable offroad vehicle that is probably worth 100k out of the show room unless you have the money, and if you have the money to do a lift then you have the money to have some custom parts made to do it properly.

my Iltis was designed in the late 70's with independant suspension and it can keep up with most trucks offroad, so in its own way has proven the functionality of independant suspension. the LR3 can keep up with most offroad also and has proven its capability. we are not talking about a rock crawler but a capable offroad truck.

I have owned a few rovers and at no point did i feel that any of them required a lift whatsoever, they were all very capable. and the one discovery I owned that did have a lift I can honestly say I did not require the lift at any point and all it did was make getting in and out of the truck more difficult.

[e.prevost94]

I agree that nobody is going to be lifting a $100k truck, but that's not really the point. If you want to get down some pretty serious trails, your much better off with solid axles. I can't say I've ever heard of anybody building a dedicated wheeler, and opting for a compleatly independent setup. If it came with IFS from the factory, that's almost always the first thing to be thrown in the scrap pile.