The Rover-Landers of BC

I'm considering buying a 1999 Discovery 2 with 154 km's on it. I have taken it for an initial test ride and the engine sounds great and pulls strong. No strange noises and there's no blue or black smoke from the exhaust.

I have read about ball joint, oil pump issues but are there any other trouble areas I should ask the mechanic I'm taking to to look at. I'm not sure how much experience he has with Range Rovers so I thought I'd direct him to problem areas right away.

The traction control light is on on the dash and the low gear lever is stuck.... I can't put it into low gear.

The truck in general looks like it was well looked after in general as the body and paint are in excellent condition and the interior is as well.

Thanks for any advice you guys can give me.

PI

What is the point of taking it to a mechanic that doesn't know rovers? The problems you describe can both be minor or major, and if the mechanic you are using doesn't know what to look for he/she wont be able to tell you. Also, non rover mechanics start hearing "ka-ching!" as soon as a rover pulls in.

Hesp Auto and Rover Tech both support this site and are both knowledgeable and reputable shops. I suggest you take the rover to either for the inspection. I've not had good experience with non rover mechanics or the dealer, MCL.

As for the problems, traction control light can come on from bad sensors $, bad abs pump $$$$, bad accumulator $$ (likely given age), bad ground wires and maybe a few other oddballs.

No low range could be anything from a gummed linkage to wrecked gears. I'm not sure if that has an interlock solenoid or not. If it does, that would be my first suspect.

If I was in an area that HAD a Rover mechanic, I'd be going there but I do not live in an area where one exists. The mechanic I'm using has an excellent reputation so I'm not worried about being fleeced.

Just looking for some friendly advice as a new potential owner.

I have a D2 and it has been a great rig... thirsty but otherwise very enjoyable on and offroad.

Biggies for expensive repairs are:
1) head gaskets - check for signs of hydro-carbons in the antifreeze or vice-versa as well as look for weeping heads (particularly near the firewall).
2) ABS system as mentionned by swamijake
3) Camshaft wear (look for evidence of regular oil changes)

Other PITAs:
Heater core leaks
worn brakes
O2 sensors
rattling CATS
inner body rust (check under the carpets)
leaky sunroofs

I had the same problem with the hi/lo range shifter as you describe (x-soccer mom truck) but with some lube and manipulation the shifter freed-up and works fine.

If you can find a rover-friendly mechanic that's great (especially if they have access to the rover-specific diagnostic software) but if you have a reliable wrencher that you trust he should be able to make sense of the rover when it comes to the major problems I mentionned.

There are lots of D2s for sale right noww and prices are low compared to some of the other rover models so my advice is to shop around until you find the "right" truck

Cheers, Rob
2001 D2
1988 D130

Thanks very much for the info Rob. Once question, what are rattling CATS?

Here's a really dumb question. If the ABS isn't working, is that the end of the world? Can I drive the vehicle for years and not worry? I have had only one vehicle with functioning ABS and many other without. Can I drive around with the ABS on, the breaks being unassisted?

What would a low price be for a decent example? Two, three or four thousand?

Hi and welcome,

"Rattling Cats" are when the internal parts of your Catalyst Convertor box on the exhaust sytem start falling apart, the exhaust going through the loose parts makes them rattle like crazy.

ABS lights shouldn't be ignored, it could be (and most probaly is) just a sensor adjustment, each wheel has a sensor which when misaligned can put your dash light on. But, it may be the ABS pump failing which when you loose pressure on that system you wont have any brakes to stop :shock:

Prices are all over the place, anything from $2000 to $8000 depending on a whole lot of factors...

Cheers, Andy

Rattling CATS = worn out Catalytic Converters (the inside components break loose and make a rattling sound from engine vibration).

The ABS pump is crazy expensive and I've heard horror stories of the units literally costing thousands. The ABS system is multi-functional operating not only the ABS but also the traction control and on my D2 the hill descent as well. The light could be on for something as simple as a broken wire in a wheel spin sensor... it is a common occurance if the brakes are serviced by someone who isn't being careful with the sensor wires. A good mechanic should be able to figure out if it is a sensor or something more serious.

You should be able to find a decent D2 for $5000 (more or less depending on condition and extras such a lifts, tires and gear)... they have depreciated incredibly with the high price of gas and the lack of some of the "image" and diesel economy of the defender line that keeps demand (and prices) strong.

Cheers, Rob

I think your questions have been well answered, but I'll throw in my two bits as well. I have a 99 D2 with 350,000 km on it. It's had the head gaskets done twice, one ABS wheel sensor, one ABS sensor wiring harness, and a plethora of minor repairs. Also I've had to remove the solenoid which locks out low range.

But no problems with oil pressure, camshaft wear, ball joints or heater core (yet!) I think these problems were more prone to happen with the Disco 1 than the Disco 2.

I've discovered an auto wrecking company that's saved me thousands in parts... http://www.autowrecking.com/, which is B&R wreckers out of Bend Oregon. They have a half dozen yards in WA and OR, and will deliver parts to Blaine, WA for free. (You haven't revealed where you are, so don't know if this will help)

If you find a decent D2 you'll enjoy it, but its definitely worth the effort to look around at a number of them before deciding.

cheers, Dave

I lived in Victoria for the last twenty years and just moved back to the east coast.The eastern townships of Quebec to be more accurate.

I've looked at a few Discos and all seem to have some level of work to be done. I have not come across a $5000 example that needs nothing. One that I looked at recently looked really promising but the owner was upfront that there was a leak at the back of one of the cylinder heads, near the firewall. He showed me exactly where it was and when the engine was good and warm, I checked the dip stick and opened the filler cap on the engine case, the oil was completely clear, no brown milky sludge.

He says that he noticed the "wet spot" there months ago and has kept an eye on the coolant level as well as watching the area under his car and says that he hasn't noticed the coolant level actually drop.

Other areas that need attention are a front right axle seal, rear breaks pads and rotors.

No leaks in the sun roof, everything else in the truck works AC etc.

Should I run from this truck? He's asking $3000

Thanks

Is it because I moved to Quebec that I'm not getting anymore more responses? Come on guys, I just moved here from Victoria.

I'm in an English speaking community......I'm still one of you.

Being in Quebec has nothing to do with it... I've been out playing with my rover so typing about about rover takes second place to me actually driving my rover!

Anyway, if you are looking at rovers out there be sure to check for inner body rust (peel back the carpets and check the floors and in particular in the rear cargo area).

I have no idea what the market is like out there for rover prices but $3000 doesn't sound like a bad price for a decent D2. As far as the head leak, that spot on the driver's side is very typical and to be frank you could probably drive it for quite awhile just monitoring the fluid levels with no problem. Mine has leaked in the same spot for almost two years and other than the hassle of topping fluids and the smell of some leaking anti-freeze on the exhaust pipe from time to time it has not negatively impacted the performance of the truck. I don't put a lot of miles on my rig but it has been OK for quite some time now with just a bit of weeping from the outside edge of the head. I do plan to get the heads done eventually but for now I just monitor the levels, look for signs of cross contamination and enjoy the awesome ride.

Ok, ca marche?

Rob

that's great news Rob! Thanks for the info. I was thinking of trying some "coolant system conditioner" as I've heard that it may plug up the small leak. Is there any downside to doing this?

So many more dumb questions to come...........

Yes $3000 sounds reasonable, in fact cheap. The first time I had a head leak, I took it to an independent land rover shop, and it cost me $1600 to have both heads re&re, cleaned and new gaskets. This was a good deal since the dealer is over $3000 for the same job. The second time, I did it myself. Pretty straightforward job, and all in parts were about $450. Either way, a fairly easy job for any skilled general purpose mechanic.

Dave

Picked up my Rover today. Drives and sounds great.

The three amigos are present: traction control, ABS and downhill assist. Suggestions......

Congrats!

They are amazing vehicles. When you say the three are present, do you mean they are functioning, or that the lights are on?

If it is the lights, start with the cheap things and move up. Here is an article from Rovers North on these issues. Big issue is you need Rover T4 scan tool or autologic to reset the brake computer. No cheap way that I know of.


Excellent article on the ABS problem by John Robison at RoversNorth .....

Welcome to the techie column for the Fall edition of
the Rover News. In this column, we’re going to look
at some of the common problems with the antilock
brakes on Discovery II models. The Discovery II electronic
braking system, called SLABS (self leveling anti
lock braking), is made by Wabco of Germany. Wabco
is a subsidiary of American Standard, a company better
known to the public for toilets than brakes. In the
automotive field, Wabco specializes in braking and
suspension systems for trucks. According to the company,
two out of three commercial vehicles with
advanced braking systems are equipped with Wabco
products.
The Land Rover system includes four-wheel
antilock braking, hill descent control, and four-wheel
traction control. The SLABS control unit also controls
the self-leveling suspension, if the vehicle has that feature.
The Discovery air suspension is also a Wabco
product. As an aside, Wabco air suspension is also
found in the new Audi A6 and the Mercedes CLS.
One of the most common ABS questions I
hear is, Why do I see the ABS, Traction
Control, and Hill Descent lights coming on?
All three of those systems share a common set of
core components. The wheel speed sensors, the hubs,
the modulator, the controller, and other parts serve all
three systems. So a fault in any one of them will cause
a problem in the other two. It is actually rare to have
a fault that would only disable one of the three systems.
99% of the time, if one is affected, they all are.
To see what’s wrong, you will need to connect a
Land Rover test system and read the faults. These systems
are not OBD II compatible, so a generic scanner
won’t talk to them. At Robison Service, we use the T4
or Autologic tools for this work.
The most common faults are wheel speed
sensor faults. The wheel speed sensors in a Land
Rover are coils that sense the motion of a toothed
wheel that’s a part of the wheel hub. The rotation of
the wheel induces a sine wave signal in the sensor
whose frequency is proportional to the speed, and
whose amplitude increases with speed from 0.5 volts
to more than 5 volts.
If your Rover has a speed sensor fault, there are
two paths to repair. The first is to replace the entire
hub on the affected corner. This is the approach
favored by dealers because the toothed wheel – called
a reluctor ring – and the actual sensor are both part
of the hub. The reluctor can get damaged by rust or
corrosion, and it can also get damaged by a bad wheel
bearing. The only way to service it is to change the
hub.
As of this writing, hubs (front-RND646 / rear-RND694)
cost around $400 and take about three hours to
change.
The sensor can be removed from the hub fairly
easily. If you remove your sensor and look inside you
should be able to see if the reluctor ring is damaged.
The reluctor ring can get damaged if the wheel bearing
gets loose. It can also get damaged by corrosion.
That’s especially true for Rovers that run on beaches.
If you see reluctor ring damage, or corrosion, or if the
hub has any free play at all – you need a complete
assembly. If there is no damage, you may be able to
fix the vehicle by changing the sensor (front-RN292 /
rear-RNH293) alone, a $100 part that’s less than an hour
to swap.
The path you choose should be determined by
examination of the reluctor via the sensor hole. If the
hub looks good, there’s an “8 or 10” odds that a sensor
alone will fix your problem.
Every now and then you will see a Rover that has
wiring problems, usually at the connector between ABS
sensor and body. Always pull it apart and look for
corrosion.
The next common fault in these systems
is called shuttle valve failure. The shuttle valve
is a part of the brake modulator – that big thing in the
location where a master cylinder would be. The modulator
incorporates the functions of an ABS servo and
a brake master cylinder into one unit.
If you have shuttle valve problems, you will see
the three warning lights on the dash and there will be
one or more stored faults for shuttle valve failure.
Land Rover has a test procedure to determine if these
faults result from a failure in the modulator or if they
are caused by wiring troubles in the ABS harness or
grounds. Unless you have corroded grounds and
cables, your trouble is probably in the modulator.
Until now, this problem was addressed by
replacement of the brake modulator (RNH082). That’s a
$1,500 part. As you can imagine, shuttle valve failure
produced a lot of unhappy owners and Land Rover
finally listened up and developed a fix.
As of March 2006, Land Rover sells a shuttle
valve repair kit for under $100. You will have to
remove the modulator and flip it over to install the
valves on a workbench. Removal of the modulator,
replacement of the valve, and refit to the vehicle takes
three hours or so.
This shuttle valve repair is a huge improvement
over the former method of addressing this problem.
The part number for the repair kit is (SW0500030).
If you buy it from a dealer you may also want to ask
for the March 2006 bulletin that gives test and installation
instructions.
Another common problem is a mushy
brake pedal. In my experience, the only explanation
for a mushy pedal is improper bleeding procedure.
Bleeding a Discovery II takes two people and the Land
Rover test system, and it takes the two of them a bit
over half an hour. You need the tester to operate the
pump and valves to make sure all the air is purged
from the modulator.
If you are paying for this service, expect a labor
bill in the range of one and a half hours and $20-30 of
brake fluid. If you are not at a dealer, make sure they
use the correct Castrol LMA fluid. Don’t even start this
process unless the shop has a tester to run the pump
and valves. You could bleed brakes in the field without
one in an emergency, but there is no way to get a
really good pedal without cycling pump and valves.
There is no shortcut for this job. You need two
people and the Land Rover tester.
We see quite a few stop lamp circuit
problems. The usual way this problem manifests
itself is a truck that won’t shift out of park. Discovery
II models have an interlock that prevents shifting out
of park unless the brake is pressed. So, if the brake
light circuit fails, the car won’t go into gear.
If that happens to you, the first step is to check
the stop lamp fuse. We’ve seen several trucks where
the stop lamps were fitted wrong, or the contacts corroded,
and the fuse blew. Also check the trailer connector,
if your Rover has one. A short there can pop
fuses.
If the fuses are good, you should check the stop
lamp switch. It’s located above the brake pedal. If
you are stuck somewhere, it is possible to get out of
park by jumping the switch temporarily with a paper
clip.
Finally, you should check your Rover to
see

Hey swamijake, very helpful article. Thanks for that. I definitely like the $100 repair kit route. I assume the repair kit for the brake modulator is still available

Is there an easy way of checking the tranny fluid besides pulling the plug How are you supposed to check to see that the tranny fluid is at the correct level if there`s no dip stick

So many questions and I haven`t had the Rover for 24 hours yet

Ok, I've been to three different auto places and tried three different sets of wiper blades, none fit. I did a bit of searching and found Atlantic British which have the blades for $34.95, $50 delivered to the Eastern Townships.

Can anyone recommend any other sources for cross over replacement parts from a "Lordco" type parts place in Canada?

I've tried them from the local jobbers, in this case Lordco, and found I was paying more than Land Rover genuine. Rovers North sells the genuine for $21.95. Hoard to go wrong with that... http://www.roversnorth.com/store/c-755- ... shers.aspx#

Unfortunately that's the only way to properly check the transmission fluid. You have to do it COLD, not warm. So get under it and loosen the plug and put a pan in place. Then hop in and start it, and go immediately back under and remove the plug. You should be able to feel the fluid just below the hole with your fingertip. If its pouring out, then let it, because the tranny will shudder between gears if overfill, which sometimes happens during a transmission service.

I have 350,000 KM on my transmission and although we thought the occasional cluck or shudder meant it was on its way out waaay back at 100,000 km, regular filter and fluid service have kept it going.

Dave

For the first week, the heater worked great. Two days ago I noticed that the heater was not getting very hot and now it's just tepid. The Rover is not over heating and not losing any coolant.

Should I start by flushing the coolant system? I noticed that there seems to be a bit of coolant near the thermostat and the hoses connected to it. Is there a chance that the thermostat can get clogged and then not regulate the heat correctly in the cabin.

Thanks for your suggestions.

By the way, in my hunt to find affordable parts, I came across Auto Parts Canada Online. Their prices seem very reasonable and include shipping for parts over $75. Has anyone else used them?

So has anyone else used Auto Parts Online Canada? How is Atlantic British to deal with?

I used autoparts online quite regularly. They are very quick to ship and have very good availability.

I've been very pleased with the quality of the parts available for my bmw's but I've found the quality of Land Rover parts (specifically suspension bushings) to be pretty poor. I think its largely manufacture dependent. The parts I received for my discovery was allmakes4x4 and stuff like that, I would of rather spent the money on genuine... I've had good luck with rimmerbros out of the UK but they are a bit expensive when you consider shipping, no worse than roversnorth though.