The Rover-Landers of BC

Hey Folks,

First time poster here! I am hoping to become a LR owner in the not too distant future. I've been scouring the internet for info for a few weeks now and I'm curious about what other local BC folks think about which model to go with. I have the Disco 2, LR3, and L322 RR over on my list. My budget isn't particularly large, BUT I do have a lot of tools and I'm willing to turn some wrenches. Some of my previous vehicles include BMWs, Minis, and Jeeps, so I'm not really afraid of brands with a "bad reputation" for reliability and I have an affinity for more "interesting" vehicles. I'm looking to drive FSRs, get to trailheads, haul muddy mountain bikes, go camping, winter road trips and all of that classic BC "outdoorsy active lifestyle" stuff. I currently have an '06 BMW 330i for city daily driving duties, so the LR wouldn't be my primary vehicle. I haven't test driven any of these at all yet, and that will make a huge difference in my final decision, but perhaps there is one or two I should rule out on principle. Budget is about $10k.

Things that appeal to me about each LR- please dispel any wayward thinking here if necessary
Disco 2: Super cool old school safari and Camel trophy vibes which makes a person think they could just drop everything and drive across the world. Seemingly less complicated electronics and suspension and the super long arm suspension links are really interesting. More engine and drive line issues than an LR3? Easier to find one of these that falls under budget and can be tweaked with the leftover cash.
LR3: Possibly the best looking of the 3. I really like the J Mays styling of the body with its precise geometry, surfaces, and very graphic windows shapes. Air suspension seems to give extremely good offroad performance and a 'lift kit' is maybe not even necessary and if so it seems like Johnson rods are inexpensive. The ability to carry 7 people would be super cool for hiking and camping trips. How quiet are these on the highway? I'm assuming the fuel economy in Vancouver extremely painful?
L322: This might be a stretch on my budget but I really love the idea of driving an ultra luxury vehicle out to the back country. Roadtrips would be so comfortable and it seems like the offroad abilities are nearly as good as the LR3? Are maintenance costs crazy? I saw that a water pump costs much less the one for my '06 BMW. There are a bunch of Ford and BMW parts on the L322 right?

Opinions? I'm sure there must be some healthy/friendly rivalries between the various LR models.

I think your synopsis of the 3 models is pretty accurate. I have a D2 and a P38 RR. As you say, the air suspension is excellent for off-road. I haven’t driven an LR3 but I think they’re excellent. If the way they drive will be a big deciding factor, I’m pretty sure the L322 will win out (I have driven my good friends supercharged L322). The D2 is certainly the simplest of the 3. If you get one that’s been maintained fairly well, you will like any of your 3 choices. They are all excellent vehicles.

I know of a couple 99 P38s for $5,000. Spend 1,000 on a coil conversion kit with 4 inch lift and another 1000 on offroad tires. You will then be set to follow anyone. P38s don't rust like D2s and the drive train is at least as good. You can keep the air suspension but I can tell you it will fail at some inconvenient point as mine has more than once. Lastly, the club needs more P38s.

If you don't fancy a P38 I would lean towards the LR3. I think much better than a D2 in all respects. For 10k you should be able to get an early one and have a bit left over for needed work and tires. I have read the front suspension bushings tend to wear out and there is the air suspension to consider. People are asking as much for a nice D2 as what an early LR3 will cost as they seem to be considered a collectors item (P38s are going that way too).

I don't think I would consider an L322 that was older than 2006. Too many expensive things could be wrong with it. A newer one would not leave you much, if anything, from your 10k.
Any questions feel free to ask.

I am a D2 guy I love mine, but the engine is the weak point. It is a full on aluminum engine block and heads, the sleeves are press fitted and not top hatted that along with being a 1960's pushrod design creates the issues.

They are gas pigs, really really big gas pigs 12-15 MPG at best. In perspective 100L of 89 octane will get you between 400 - 500Km to the low fuel light with about 20 liters left

You have 3 basic problems with engine

• Long interval oil changes, this can clog the lifters and rocker oil passages accelerating camshaft wear and lead to the standard pushrod tick. These 5000 Mile oil change trucks.
  Cooling system is a bit marginal - overheat is 240ish and the dash gauge is an idiot light. Overheats can cause head gaskets to fail, cracked blocks or cylinder sleeves that move
  Lots of the cooling system parts are plastic and at end of life. They can be hard to source, and thermostat has to be an actual LR unit or the inline modification the aftermarket thermostats are mostly terrible

Ideally you want D2 with a functional CDL (Center Diff lock)

Sunroof, roof rails and windshield can leak - a lot.
Rear quarter frame rust can be an issue

But they are pretty simple to work on, and when they are running right they are joy.

Thanks for the replies folks! Its going to be a slow process figuring out which one to go with, which is fine with me. I like the researching, scouring the ads, test driving, and evaluating the options. I'm getting married this summer, so I'll likely have to wait until after that to make anything happen unless I could unload my Jeep for something near what I have into it then that might speed things up, but we'll see. Lots of time to read and research still.

Honestly you can't go wrong with any of those options, but do research on land rover forums there's tons of owners who make complete write ups of what to look out for and they're invaluable. I have a discovery 2 myself and I love it but it's not for everyone. It's old school, slow, bit bumpy and thirsty. Vs the LR3 or L322 is better on road in every way, but discoverys have a charm to them when you drive them. So it really depends if you plan on doing a lot of on road driving I'd go with an LR3 but if it's mostly off road use and occasionally around town then I'd go Disco. But make sure you get a nice one, don't buy a really cheap truck with a bunch of issues they're Neverending and you'll never enjoy it. Spend the extra money and get one that you can depend on and not spend half the year fixing it. And don't be afraid of mileage these trucks can go a pretty long time and rack up a lot of miles if looked after.

I’m glad you have lots of time to look, the worst thing would be to rush into something. I agree with Ajjay about spending more on a well looked after vehicle, but if you enjoy working on them, and if the price is right, one with some issues might be okay. That’s how I got all 3 of mine really. The D2 took me 1/2 a year to get it right, the P38 1 1/2 years, and the Series 2 several years. I don’t regret getting vehicles that needed work.

A bit more info on your abilities and intentions will help. Meaning are you considering a LR for daily driving, what’s your comfort level on working on your own vehicle? Speaking from my own experiences of having a D1 and an LR3 I can say that yes the D1 is a lot more friendlier to work on even when doing your own work on them. D1 as a daily driver? No way. Too costly on fuel, and I want to preserve the body and frame from winter salt and corrosion. But I truly love the feeling of how the D1 drives, the large fishbowl window surrounds, the relatively slower pace, no electronics terrain selection just your abilities, etc.
The LR3 is definitely a modern feeling vehicle to drive, but its power V8 and functionality (ability of sleeping in the rear area) along with modern driving dynamic make it a modern LR but electronics make it so. Now doing your own work on one? Yes it’s possible, but more difficult. Parts pricing (especially OEM) are expensive, tighter spaces, more knowledge needed. In inevitable some computer code rears its head and you’ll need to be very proficient in its repairs.
Welcome to Landrovers, choose wisely, and have some fun.

I'm an okay wrench. The digital diagnosis stuff and heavy electronics presence is a bit new to me and my current BMW (2006 E90) has been a bit of a learning curve. Anything analogue is certainly within reach of my repair skills: Suspension rebuilds, cooling system repairs, etc. There are three torque wrenches in the garage, so the tool collection is starting to get decent! An '06+/modern LR will be a bit more difficult to work on, but I can live with that if I really prefer the modern driving experience. I think the biggest trouble I'll come across is that the LR3 and L322 will not fit in my garage fully for multiday projects. I can squeeze in a Disco 1, D2, P38 or an L320, but the larger models will need some serious rearranging to get the overhead door to close.
My intention isn't to build a hardcore off-road machine, but something to have fun in on the weekends out on FSRs, to drive when the snow hits, and something with an auto trans for the wife to bomb around in once in a while. And maybe tag along on a Rover Landers trip one day! (Some of the photos of trips from the last couple years were really amazing!) My must haves are: 1. Needs HUGE windows because I'm 6'4" and in my current SUV my eyeline is at the top of the windows, so I can't see any of the mountain scenery when I'm out! 2. Needs to be comfortable on a long road road trip 3. Quiet on the highway 4. Can handle mild to moderate off-road. LR build plan would be something super light like: Minor lift, Falken AT3Ws, no winch, no steel bumpers. If I were to go with a D1 or P38 I would be tempted to put it on collectors plates.
Anyway, I had shoulder surgery a couple weeks ago and I'm still going to be in a sling for about another 3 weeks, which means no driving until I have both arms working again! :mad:

Another consideration for you is the 1989-1992 Short wheel base Range Rover Classic.
I would say it ticks most of your boxes,
- Simple engine to work on V8 3.9.
- Auto Transmission
- Comfortable and quiet
- Possibility of collector plates
- Fits in the garage
- Not much in the way of electronics
- Simple mechanics and Coil Springs
- Hold their value (actually increasing in value)

Cheers
Andy

ANDYD wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:47 pm Another consideration for you is the 1989-1992 Short wheel base Range Rover Classic.
I would say it ticks most of your boxes,
- Simple engine to work on V8 3.9.
- Auto Transmission
- Comfortable and quiet
- Possibility of collector plates
- Fits in the garage
- Not much in the way of electronics
- Simple mechanics and Coil Springs
- Hold their value (actually increasing in value)

Cheers
Andy

IMHO, both short and long wheelbase RRC are awesome offroad, especially if you have diff lockers.
There is also P38 Range Rovers to consider. We have a few members that take them everywhere. One is for sale on FB marketplace currently https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/i ... =top_picks
Only model to really keep away from is the Freelander. If it hasn't blown up its motor yet, its because no one has driven it. :spinning:

After 1992 Land Rover stuffed the Range Rover Classics with experimental electronics which was quite exciting in the day but not long lasting. (30 years later)

Most the Long Wheel versions had a mass of electronics and air bag suspension which most owners have swapped out for coils by now.
The Long Wheel Base always reminded me of a hearse :? Just my opinion (sorry to those who have one) They are great for sleeping in the back though !!

Something you might also consider is safety. I think an LR3 is likely to be a safer car to drive than the others. Not sure about the specs for the LR3 but my 2008 Range Rover has things like Emergency Brake Assist and Dynamic Stability Control as well as more air bags than earlier cars. The LR3 body is also built with crash protection in mind.
As for all the electronics, I don't think this is really that big a problem. You need to by a good scanner like the Gap Industries IID tool. I think you will actually find more problems with simple mechanical things like worn control arm bushings, air springs, compressors, etc. If you can swing wrenches these things are repairable at home. Parts are not that expensive from Rock Auto.
Nothing electronic has failed on my 2008 Range Rover.

Thanks for the insights everyone! The discussion is definitely very helpful. There are lots of interesting models in the LR lineup from the past, so its tough to know which direction to go. Nice to hear some positive words about the lack of electrical issues with the L322.
That '00 RR sure is affordable. At least up front! I see he previously had it listed for $7500, interesting. When I can start test driving stuff then I'll be able to decide a bit more clearly which direction to go in. Gotta find the balance: More wrenching and a lower price, or less wrenching and a higher price and modern vs classic.

there's a black P38 on sale out there, 314k on the clock though

mines a MY94 @ 340k, but got a new engine some time in the past. Weird thing about the P38 is the lack of rust, I think mine sat in the forest (it keeps pouring out dark dirt out of the panels LOL) yet rust is minimal compared to my 150k 97 D1.

I find it a bit more modern compared to my D1, especially after putting a Atoto android deck in there. The dash is well designed instead of a straight dash, seats are comfy and you still get a fish bowl feel of a classic. It looks big but actually can fit into small car parking spots without a problem. Sport mode helps gives it a bit of umph merging on the highway, more than adequate... old land rovers are not SVRs.

You will have to constantly nurse it to keep it happy but thats the joy of owning a 29 year old land rover

IMHO, both short and long wheelbase RRC are awesome offroad, especially if you have diff lockers.
There is also P38 Range Rovers to consider. We have a few members that take them everywhere. One is for sale on FB marketplace currently https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/i ... =top_picks
Only model to really keep away from is the Freelander. If it hasn't blown up its motor yet, its because no one has driven it. :spinning:
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Looks that one on market place sold and now is re-listed for 4500$. Someone is trying to make a quick buck.

Most of the cheap rovers end up being resold 2 days later for a higher price. I don't know if they're successful or not but it appears quite common and a bit suspicious

That P38’s last listing was $2500 and it now says Sold.
If it is truly a good runner, that price was really great.
As yrayray says, P38’s just don’t rust, unless they live on a salt water beach.