The Rover-Landers of BC

Alright, it's time to start... again. The pile of parts in my basement and garage are henceforth to be known as Duffy. He (it?) is a 1960 Series 2 109" Regular. You might remember us from previous threads -- I had a teardown thread detailing the first part of the process here:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7281

It's time to start putting things back together. Took me six years (or more) to get the thing properly stored in the basement (that takes time, you know) and acquire enough tools in relative proximity to Duffy that I can now sort of be confident that I can solve some mechanical problems.

To document the process, I've moved my rebuild thread over to a Google Sites project so that I don't have to use silly image hosting websites. Hopefully this works well. It's very, uh, blank so far -- decoration will have to wait, I'm afraid, for time and inclination to catch up.

So it's still a work in progress but I have done my first post! You can find a link to the site here.

Let's see how this goes.

Hi,

Congrats on getting her finally on the rebuild stage, will be watching with interest. Will she be staying yellow?
I would weld repair any dings and dents in the axles and clean them up and apply a good quality paint, will be good for another 50 yrs :bounce:

Just for your information you can upload photos onto this forum without using any hosting site like "Photo#ucket" ... just saying!

Good luck, step by step, day by day ..... you will get there.

-Andy

Thanks for the suggestion.

Took my axle housing around to three places in Langley last Saturday. Two closed (one permanently) and the other didn't want the work as the job was too small.

Anyone know a reliable frame or fabrication shop in Langley / Cloverdale?

Give Darin a call at Balmer Fab in Abbotsford. He is a one person smaller job and is willing to take on unique jobs. He has done some work for Roverlanders:

https://www.balmerfab.com/home

Good luck on your project!

acg wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:58 pm Good luck on your project!

Thank you!

So I am rebuilding one of the three diffs I have to go into a nice axle housing I was able to acquire, and I am thinking I should put fresh bearings in. Does anyone have a bearing puller and a press and a spare afternoon? I can bribe you with 🍺 or 🍪 or something!

New post!

I start work on the rear differential.

Here we go with the next step of the rebuild process. At this rate, I'll be done by... 2044?

Some lessons learnt, for sure.

Can you all see the website OK? I'm not just linking you to something that doesn't work, right?

Yes, your link is working fine for me. Keep up the good work, I'm enjoying the posts.

cool to see that you didn't give up on it. very cool 109' keep it up!

Thanks for the feedback, gents.

I attempted to do some more work, this time by taking a look at the brake backing plates.

I guess this must happen to everyone who undertakes a big rebuild, right?

New post!

I reassemble what I have for the rear diff, with (of course) a couple of problems along the way.

I am thinking that now that I've reread some of my old posts, I should probably take the thing into a specialist for a proper checkup. I haven't been able to check preload, backlash, or deal with the wobbly gears in the diff centre. :/

Your brake back plates are the early 109” style which someone has welded nuts to so they could use the later style cylinders! I’m not sure you can even get the correct cylinders for the early style anymore. The cheapest option (unless you want to stay with original dated parts) is to switch the back plates to the later style then you can easily get all the correct parts for your 109”.

Matt

Thanks Matt. That is my plan, sir, and I am hoping you have a couple back plates that will suit...?

oldgravy wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:22 pm Thanks Matt. That is my plan, sir, and I am hoping you have a couple back plates that will suit...?

Pretty sure I do. I’ll check and let you know what I have.

Matt

I should clarify, I have new cylinders and other parts.

Am I correct in understanding that brake back plates are NLA?

Well, the time has come to get the chassis finished. It's really the start of the project and all the other stuff I'm doing is mere window dressing. Without a frame, I've nothing to bolt to, really. My existing frame needs some repair, as you can see from my original teardown thread. The short list of needed repairs is:

1. Rear crossmember
2. Front crossmember (steering relay housing still stuck in it)
3. Forward spring hangers
4. Top rear shock mounts
5. Repairs to 3-4 existing patches on the frame

In addition, I need the footwells replaced on my bulkhead and I'd like a power steering bracket (P38) welded on.

I have considered two options. First, sourcing a replacement frame. The cheapest estimate I found would have been shipping a frame FOB to Calgary for $2500. On top of the $5k to buy a new chassis from Richards, PLUS a 6+ month waiting time. That's just too expensive.

The only other option is to find someone to repair the existing frame. In my mind, this has to be cheaper -- even including getting it galvanized -- than going with a new built frame. You can tell, obviously, that I'm not a metal fabricator, so take this conclusion with a grain of salt.

Anyway, I have to find a place that will do it for me. There are, again, some options -- one of the existing sponsors / specialists; a third party classic auto restorer; or a shade-tree type fab shop. There are pros and cons to each, obviously.

I have concerns.

- I have no idea if my existing frame is straight or not. I have astigmatism and it's hard to tell.
- There's no cost certainty. Lots more could need doing on the existing frame. There are some previous patches that might need to be taken out and redone.
- I'm going to put my kids in this thing when it's done, so I want a quality job.
- It's actually really nerve-wracking having someone potentially change the geometry of the vehicle.

What have you guys done? Most of you seem to be fabricators or have welding friends. I have neither. Your advice is greatly appreciated!

-Simon

Hi, have you tried Jeremy at Rocky Mountain in North Van? He did have some new Series Chassis in stock for a while. He also has parts to repair you chassis if you prefer.
Rocky Mountain have most Series parts that you need (he doesn't have much Series 1 stuff). He normally ships at cost price too.
If you decide to repair, Series chassis are very rigid and wont move much when you cut bits out. What I did was used some ready-rod to make some home made big "clamps" to hold it square while bits were cut out and then welded back in.

Where are you located?

Cheers
Andy

ANDYD wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:24 pm
Where are you located?

I'm in Cloverdale, sir. And I have visited Jeremy a few times. He has no chassis and no plans to get any again. AFAIK there is no one locally bringing them in any more.

I know I can buy some of the pieces -- rear crossmember, etc -- but where to get the fabrication work done, reasonably affordably, is the challenge.

Re bringing a frame - Check out this posting:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11422

Thanks Martin!

A few thoughts on repairing your existing frame if you choose to go that route:
-you can check for square and trueness of your frame to see if it is out significantly with a length of string, a tape measure and an extra set of hands (string strung taught gives a straight line, tape measures distances including diagonals to check squareness). Won’t get you as perfect as a frame machine, but will give a quick check to see if it is even close before spending more time on a frame that is way out of being straight.
-any original frame that shows visible corrosion beyond very light surface rust will have more than you realize when you dig in to fix it, and it all needs to be addressed if you want it to last and be safe. A hammer and screwdriver are your friends in evaluating what needs repair and if the frame is too far gone to salvage.
-doing your own frame repairs requires not only the investment in equipment but also the time to develop the proper welding skills to do a proper and safe job of the repairs. This isn’t something you can just pick up a cheap welder and instantly slap it together. Depending on your own interest, finances, working space and future needs, it may or may not make sense to get set up and learn to do it yourself. Welding is not hard, but does require the right equipment, skill set, practice and settings to do it right, but most people can learn to do it if they wish to. It also requires adequate workspace, which in many home garages is in short supply.
-having a friend with the skills and gear to help if you don’t is great, but again not always the case for everyone.
-paying a shop to do the repairs will not be overly cheap either, as their costs are fairly high so their hourly rate is too. Also such a project is not something every shop is willing to do. Some are simply too busy to take on such small jobs, some don’t want the potential liabilities and headaches. Not every shop will do the same standard of work as well. If you find a good shop that does a good job, you will have nearly as good as new at a lesser cost than a full new frame (hopefully). Ensure you get a detailed quote in writing if you can to avoid sticker shock when it is done and the cost went up from your original price.
-the replacement pieces (you mentioned a rear cross member) can add up, and when added to the shop hours could add up to be a good chunk of a new frame. Depending how far gone it is, it may not be economical to repair your frame if you cannot do the work yourself instead of hiring a shop.
-anything you can do to clean the frame up (scraping off all the loose rust etc) will limit the working time and thus cost you are paying the shop for, but will need to discuss with whomever you are having do the job on how far they want you to take it.
-taking it to a shop will involve the time, cost and hassle of dragging it there. Depends on who you are working with, they may be able to come and do the job with a mobile rig (or bring a machine if you have adequate power avaiable) at your place and cost/hassle may be worth it.
-a new frame avoids many of these issues, but the cost is high to get one here and there may be differences from your original that may cause some headaches at reassembly when you have to adapt to make it work, so they aren’t necessarily fully trouble free either.

Ultimately you are the only one who can make the call on if the cost and difficulty of getting a new frame are worthwhile over the cost and difficulties of repairing what you have and which route you are heading down, just some thoughts that may help you work through it.

Thanks for the thoughts. This has been a big stumbling block of a process.

I think one of the positive things about restoring a Series Land Rover is that it's pretty accessible; it's mostly something you can do in a standard garage by yourself without too much in the way of special tools... with some exceptions. One of those exceptions is in the frame. I appreciate many of you will have the skills and confidence to embark upon a repair on your own, with equipment you own or can borrow, making this considerably easier. As you said, it's great if you have a friend that can do this.

If you don't, it's a significant expense that probably has killed more than one project in its tracks.

Well, I bit the bullet and decided to order a new chassis directly from Richards.

Hopefully I can find a taker for my old frame?

A new post, wherein I start working on propshaft refurbishment.

Ha, you did a nice job on the article. Anyone who has done LR U-joints will know exactly what you went through!
I've done a lot of U-joints over the years and can normally change mine out fairly quickly with a big vice and a big hammer, but its never any fun.

Keep up the good work
-Andy

I rounded over two impact sockets trying to shift the cups out using a 3lb hammer. 😔

Some more work completed! I talk about paint, a subject I'm still learning about. The little, invisible painting / coating jobs never get any press. No one seems to write about them! Maybe it's because they're not really seen on a completed project?

By the way, I am concerned that people without Google accounts can't see my site hosted there -- if you click the link and don't get taken straight to the posting, then let me know?

And another post! This may be my last revisit of the rear diff. Maybe.

I have an update. It's been a while! Got covid (did poorly), built a shed (built poorly) and bought a land rover frame which arrived just this morning. Now I feel poorly.

I thought I would write about the process for those considering ordering a frame on their own from the UK.

Yes, I detailed my costs in the post. The end result might be a bit eye-popping.

Oh, I have one more update. I had to pay a further $18 to the Surrey Waste Transfer station to dispose of the pallet wood. Guys, don't just dump your garbage in the forest, somewhere...

Actually, eagle-eyed viewers might not a problem with the chassis I received. I ordered a LHD chassis with the P38 power steering mount option and Richards welded it to the wrong side. :( Discouraging.

Quick update. I have managed to get the frame into the garage and promptly buried it under a mountain of stuff that's waiting for a more permanent home. :/

I reached out to Richards about the brackets being on the wrong side of the frame. To their credit, they have offered me a partial refund and they're sending over the parts to attach to the correct side. As with the ordering process, their customer service has been good. Truthfully there's not a lot anyone can do; it's not as if they can send me a replacement.

I'm not actually sure what I'll end up doing in the end. I wanted to have the option of adding power steering; figured if I was going to be ordering a new chassis, I may as well get the bracket added for what was (comparatively) little cost. Now I'm not so sure. I'm very reluctant to pay someone to grind off the galv and weld a bracket on to bare metal. The whole point was to have a rock-solid base from which to build upon...

:?

Sorry to hear of these issues.

I wouldn’t worry too much re longevity after welding on the pwr steering bracket to the LH side. 40 to 50 years from now, when the rust starts to get serious, you likely will be too old (if you are even still around - I won’t be) to get it repaired. 🤫😂😳

FYI - Industrial galvanizing paint these days is almost, but not quite, as good as the dipping process. I was told that you can heat the area to paint with a torch before painting then paint while still hot. This will flash bond the zinc paint to the metal. I’m going to try it one of these days to see if it really does make a difference.

There is no chance I will be around in 40 years, Martin! 😂

Two new posts!

One on unpacking the chassis; and

Another on more axle bull-crap!

oldgravy wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:47 pm Two new posts!

One on unpacking the chassis; and

Another on more axle bull-crap!

Sweet! Glad to see you are making progress. :blob7:

I have started to paint things!

Okay okay okay, I need to make a decision on what I should do with the chassis before I start bolting stuff to it.

Should I:

i. Topcoat with POR15 DTM chassis black after scotchbriting + degreasing; or
ii. Just leave it bare galv?

The loose plan is to keep the original yellow colour...

Man, is this job ever a pain.

Much harder to do on the vehicle when you have the hub to deal with.

This is... frustrating. There is 6-8" at least between the shock and the mount with the weight of the chassis (and me) on the springs.

I would wait on the shocks until you’ve got the truck on its wheels and the rear body on. I’d guess you will need at least 300-400lbs on there to make new paras settle down enough to fit the shocks.

Matt

mepham55 wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:36 pm I would wait on the shocks until you’ve got the truck on its wheels and the rear body on. I’d guess you will need at least 300-400lbs on there to make new paras settle down enough to fit the shocks.

Matt

And don’t forget the check straps, else you may break one of those pretty shocks on full articulation. :bounce:

Thanks, gents. I do have the rebound straps but they won't go 'round the axle as it is. I'm going to have to fix the brake pipe shields as those are actually supposed to be inboard.

I did get up to some stuff over the summer, though!

New post on starting the front axle, with a diff from Ashcrofts!

I also tried a test fit of the defender 200tdi on the chassis. The most immediate problem seemed to be the power steering pump, which interfered with the bump stop mounts.

I think the right side motor mount can be fabricated fairly easily. I've heard that the high pressure fuel pump gets in the way but... maybe not?

Work continues on gearbox stuff. It's pretty dirty.

And two new blog posts are up from back in November:

Some work I did to reuse some old parts

and

Stripping down the front propshaft

Getting caught up with posts. On to the gearbox:

Starting to take a look at the gearbox with an overview of what we have and removing some small parts as per the Haynes manual and green bible.

Then on to some basic cleaning, where I tried using oven cleaner. TL:DR; it works!

We can commiserate together......
:s3green:
I will have to endure the same process that you are now doing.

Anyone know the significance of these numbers on the transmission of a 1959 series 2 stn wagon....?

Yours looks like it might be in decent shape? The special nut on my mainshaft (heh) is mangled.

I am building a parts list...

Yes, I believe it is in decent shape (has not been driven since 1985)......although there is no reverse.
It is out of the vehicle, on the bench, so I will dismantle it and investigate.....
Will be interested in your progress and what you find.

I think I have concluded that, due to the general age and heavy wear on the running components in the vehicle, (no surprise) the gearbox is beyond saving. :( :( Possibly the transfer box also.

1st gear is worn and chipped; 2nd and 3rd are worn. Almost every sliding surface is well worn.

The mainshaft looks okay; and the layshaft looks okay. But the selector shafts have rust on them, the synchro looks like it has some rust spots on it as well, and with the price of replacement parts it could be too expensive to replace everything. :?

Pretty sure the mainshaft distance piece isn't supposed to be, you know, broken. Heh!

I wasn't going to pull all this stuff apart, figuring it would be fine if I just left it. In retrospect, I'm glad I took the time to strip it and do more than a cursory inspection of the parts.

Here's the 'mud' I mentioned:

ouch....looks like someone was trying to learn how to shift without a clutch.

It's a mess. I will have to post more on what I have discovered soon. 😑

Here's the damage. A list of parts that *for sure* need replacing.

I am hoping I can save the shifter linkages, maybe the synchro? and the output shaft on the transfer box.
In addition I need all the parts that were missing (the entire yellow lever), the whole clutch pivot assembly (shot), and every bearing, seal, and gasket.

😬

New blog post: I have begun taking the gearbox / transfer unit apart and separating into its major components.

And because I do these things in bunches, it would seem, I just added another post on disassembling the main gearbox.

Thanks for the update, I see your going in deeper :shock:
If your like me you will feel like a dentist doing Heart surgery !!

Like you mention in your blog, taking it apart and putting back is cheap if you don't need to replace parts, Good luck!

Think how much lighter Duffy will be without all that muck and grime 8)
Looking forward to the next update.

Heh, I feel like a clown attempting to construct a skyscraper. Or as my old man is fond of saying, like 'a one-armed poster hanger in a stiff breeze.'

I am afraid all that labour is for naught. I don't think I can afford the replacement parts. A second gearbox, at least, will have to be sourced... and probably a t-case. 🙁

Ah well. It definitely helps knowing others have gone before me! Having a community of knowledge is most welcome.

oldgravy wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:50 pm Heh, I feel like a clown attempting to construct a skyscraper. Or as my old man is fond of saying, like 'a one-armed poster hanger in a stiff breeze.'

I am afraid all that labour is for naught. I don't think I can afford the replacement parts. A second gearbox, at least, will have to be sourced... and probably a t-case. 🙁

Ah well. It definitely helps knowing others have gone before me! Having a community of knowledge is most welcome.

The biggest challenge with Series gearbox rebuilds is no matter where you start, the newest Series 3 boxes are 40 years old, with 2a,2 and 1 being 51 to 75 years old, and many have had rough lives. Most haven’t been as abused as yours, but most parts trucks are likely to be rougher and their gearboxes are probably going to have many parts needing replacement just like yours.

Add to this that getting quality gearbox parts can be a challenge as the quality of many current parts for these gearboxes is less than the original parts, and NOS parts are getting harder to find and pricey.

Buying another gearbox could be a crapshoot, as you may get one better to start from but it may be as bad or worse. Without cracking them open, it’s hard to say. Best bet is if you can find one someone has already checked out to confirm condition.

The one advantage to fixing what you have is you know where you are at, and once it’s rebuilt you’ll know what you have. Either way, you’re going to end up going through the whole thing. Just the amount of parts replaced that might vary, depending on how good a used gear/transfer box set you can pick up.

Current parts total: £1,451.84.

Before shipping, taxes, and duty.

It's a mix of genuine parts, where available, and whatever is available if genuine isn't. That's the total from my cart at Craddocks. I've put everything into a spreadsheet and I'll be working through lrworkshop to see if it's worth splitting an order into two but... I rather suspect this is what it's gonna be.

At current exchange rates it's $2374.

New post on taking a look at what's inside the main gearbox here.

Also catching up with some stuff I've already posted in the thread here as I take apart the bellhousing and input shaft assembly.

Stymied by the gearbox I decided to clutter up to workbench even more by taking a look at the defender 200tdi I have as a donor motor for the project. If it's a good one, I will pick up a disco timing chest and front cover / water pump so it hopefully drops right in.

This motor was bought by the previous owner off eBay. Serial number is ground off so it's likely a stolen motor.

Don't care all *that* much as long as the head is good.

Looks like someone's been in here.

Catching up on blog posts. Numbers 24, 25, and 26 all posted.

I see I have written up a few new blog posts but none have been posted here. Whoops.

In my last entry, in a bid to keep moving forward I decided to pick up a series 1 gearbox from a collector here in South Surrey, hoping that I could salvage some of the internal components and reduce the cost of my transmission rebuild... only to find out that sadly it, too, was quite worn and I was able to salvage almost nothing from the 'box. :(

Finally, frustrated with gearbox problems (and no money to solve them) I turned my attention to another thing I could work on, starting to strip down my 200TDi.

Keen-eyed observers will note that I have changed some of the naming conventions in my blog, so previous links are probably broken.

I painted a thing!

Hope it lasts.

oldgravy wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:20 am I painted a thing!

Hope it lasts.

Looks good, but as I understand it you’re leaving the POR 15 as the top coat? It isn’t UV tolerant and degrades if not top coated, so it would be better to top coat it now rather than needing to tear the truck down again later when the POR 15 starts to show the degradation.

TimberPig wrote:

oldgravy wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:20 am I painted a thing!

Hope it lasts.

Looks good, but as I understand it you’re leaving the POR 15 as the top coat? It isn’t UV tolerant and degrades if not top coated, so it would be better to top coat it now rather than needing to tear the truck down again later when the POR 15 starts to show the degradation.

He used POR15 top coat which is UV stable.

red90 wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2023 5:25 am

TimberPig wrote:
Looks good, but as I understand it you’re leaving the POR 15 as the top coat? It isn’t UV tolerant and degrades if not top coated, so it would be better to top coat it now rather than needing to tear the truck down again later when the POR 15 starts to show the degradation.

He used POR15 top coat which is UV stable.

I missed that part when I read it. Oversight on my part.

Yep, the exact paint I used is on one of the photos. I was aware of the UV issues with (standard, not top coat) POR plus, I figured it wouldn't be better than any other coating on top of new galv.

I don't know much about coatings, so I went with one that I had used previously on my axles. I had some ideas how it might work.

It seems okay, but as with most things time will tell. I've also heard that Eastwood chassis black is pretty good?

Wow, look how long it's been since my last update. A lifetime!

New posts, starting with #30, and ending up near to the present time with #35, a look inside my 200tdi.

Thanks again to the board members here and good luck to everyone with their ongoing projects. 👋

And for a small teaser at what I've been up to since then:

Battery Connection ..... Start up?

Pinch clamp for a steering bar?

*electroplating*.

And yes, it is a pinch clamp for the steering connections.

with those ultrasonic cleaners, I found that evaporust pretty much restores the bolts in about an hour, my ultrasonic is both heated and vibratory, and I found keeping the evaporust Hot makes it work more effectively.

Seekerbeta wrote: Wed Jul 30, 2025 5:12 pm with those ultrasonic cleaners, I found that evaporust pretty much restores the bolts in about an hour, my ultrasonic is both heated and vibratory, and I found keeping the evaporust Hot makes it work more effectively.

Thanks for the tip. I think in cases where you want the parts to be top coated i.e. with paint, that would be an excellent solution (pun intended.)

However I have found that the paints I have used just don't stand up, at all, on any kind of fastener. I painted my axle flange bolts and they stripped (the paint, not the thread) the second I torqued them.

Things like wheel nuts, or indeed any kind of bolt are usually visible and subject to damage from tools. If you're going to re-use an old bolt or nut, it makes sense to galvanize and then chromate it. Things like the pinch clamps could probably just be painted, I suppose, but it's not that much extra effort to wire wheel them, polish / clean them up with an abrasive brush wheel on a drill, and then run them through your next electroplating batch.

You don't have to use the blingy gold finish like cool 'n vintage do; I believe Dobbo just does a silver finish on his fasteners. But I do think they benefit from a sturdier coating than paint.

oldgravy wrote: Fri Aug 15, 2025 10:00 am

Seekerbeta wrote: Wed Jul 30, 2025 5:12 pm with those ultrasonic cleaners, I found that evaporust pretty much restores the bolts in about an hour, my ultrasonic is both heated and vibratory, and I found keeping the evaporust Hot makes it work more effectively.

Thanks for the tip. I think in cases where you want the parts to be top coated i.e. with paint, that would be an excellent solution (pun intended.)

However I have found that the paints I have used just don't stand up, at all, on any kind of fastener. I painted my axle flange bolts and they stripped (the paint, not the thread) the second I torqued them.

Things like wheel nuts, or indeed any kind of bolt are usually visible and subject to damage from tools. If you're going to re-use an old bolt or nut, it makes sense to galvanize and then chromate it. Things like the pinch clamps could probably just be painted, I suppose, but it's not that much extra effort to wire wheel them, polish / clean them up with an abrasive brush wheel on a drill, and then run them through your next electroplating batch.

You don't have to use the blingy gold finish like cool 'n vintage do; I believe Dobbo just does a silver finish on his fasteners. But I do think they benefit from a sturdier coating than paint.

i painted my lug nuts when i replaced my wheels, a soak in Evaporust, and a coat of Steel-it worked quite well, they have been on there since 2021 and multiple removals and torque sequences in all kinds of weather, they are just starting to look like they need a re-coat.