The Rover-Landers of BC

Can someone who will be going on the next WHIPSAW RUN in july get in touch with me, please. as i have some signage for placement along the sensitive areas of the trail. And has Paul or some one contacted the ministry about available tables etc. to be installed at LODESTONE LAKE CAMPSITE? I will be around home {south Surrey} this weekend. then i am off to the Island for a week then on holidays. hope some one can get these signs.!!. home email is [email protected]. or [email protected] is my ppc email. all the best. rick.m

Hi Rick,

I was making arrangements to pick them up from Wes in Surrey (I’m in New West)…now you have them, how would you like me to get them, can we meet somewhere? (if you don’t want to hang on to them)

I have been in touch to forestry regarding resources (tables etc.) & location of recourses; I’m waiting for a response. I’ll send of a reminder this morning.

Thanks Paul. Shawn just emailed me about them . and i will try to take them to him tonight or sat. thanks. good luck with getting the stuff for up there. all the best. rick.m

Ok that sounds great..thanks for getting them.

Sorry guys, I won't be able to come on the next Whipsaw run, due to work commitments.

Next time...

Dave

I was able to get the signs over to Shawn Doherty this am {sat} to be taken up to the trail, there will need to be some posts taken i guess to fasten them to. Hope all goes well . rick.m Club Secretary, "roverlanders"
Hope that will help Paul C.

Thanks again Rick & Shawn,

I was just thinking about how we are going to post/stake the signs. Obviously staking the signs into the ground will work…but with what; wood, or rebar might be nice…anyone have any extra materials/ideas that we could use? A non-evasive way to post signs on trees might also be handy…any ideas/volunteers?

Shawn if your out there… how big are the signs & what do they seem to be made of?

Paul the signs are made of corrigated plastic they are 12" wide and 18" long. they can be installed by zap straps to a tree or rebar and the same or screws to a post. There are 45 signs. I would think round pencil posts would be best with a post pounder. they say" Be Responsible, This is a fragile enviroment, Off-road use threatens the unique variety of plants and wildlife found within these grasslands. Please stay on public roadways!Keep your grasslands Alive!" Also I have a trailer thay could carry a table or 2 up there but it won't be fast.

I have about 8 8 footers and a hand pounder if someone want to pick them up on the way out. You might want to cut the posts in half and mount the signs low...

After much searching, becuase we use these in our paddock, the only place I can regularly find bean poles (1-2" x 8') is Otter Co-op. I can pick up some more if you think we need them.

Dave

Thanks for the sign description & volunteering to haul with your trailer. I’ll keep you posted regarding tables. Shawn (or anyone for that matter) what do you think do we need 2 stakes per/sign so they don’t blow over?

Dave I’m not 100% sure what 8 footers & a hand pounder are :lol: , but I bet they are useful and we should pick them up for signing the trail. Beanpoles (wood stakes?) also sound good if we have 45 signs, although I doubt that we would post half that many. So I would say sure Dave if you pick up some Beanpoles as many as the budget(??) reasonable allows.

Does anyone have a line on some (free) very long zapstraps?

PaulC wrote:Dave I’m not 100% sure what 8 footers & a hand pounder are :lol:

You will Paul, by the end of this trip. Posts come in sizes of either 6, 7 or 8 feet, normally, and standard widths are 2-3", 3-4", or 4-5" in diameter. They are hard to find, but there is another size, 1-2" diameter, which are light duty, but quite strong, and the good thing about them is they're really easy to pound. The hand pounder is basically an 18" section of heavy pipe, about 6" diameter, with the end welded up and handles welded to the sides.

The proper way to use these is to have two guys holding the handles and keep it balanced. The last time I used it myself without a helper, I nearly did myself in as it kicked back, bounced off my forehead and thunked me on the top of the head as well. Knocked me out and created a rather big pool of red stuff. So the moral of the story is use the pounder with two people!

Dave

Hi Guys,

I have a load of 1ft zap-straps I can bring along if needed?
They can be daisy chained together to be longer if required.

These signs sound quite flexible, will they need a backing board?
.. or two posts, one at each side, to stop them bending in the wind?


Andy

They are flexible and would be best installed on plywood. Being a carpenter I can cut out some plywood very quickly and I have loads of scrap ply at my disposal. If we were to flaten the section of post with an axe or chain saw that the sign attachs to it would be stronger and 1 post would do. It would be difficult to pound 2 posts together to a consistent measurement. The ply would be best bolted to the post with gal. carriage bolts. So 45 signs need approx 45 posts, 45 12"x 18" pieces of ply and 90 carriage bolts 5/16" x 3". assuming you want to install them all to posts. In casese where trees are used zap straps and plywood would work fine.

Ok thanks gents, single post sounds like the way to go & 2 persons on the pounder (helmets) :shock: .

Shawn are u volunteering to procure & cut & mount the signs to plywood? Would you like some help from someone?

Carriage bolts/nuts/washers I would be happy to pick them up…is there a budget for reimbursement?

Zaps from Andy…thank you.

Still need to pick up the hand pounder from Dave…anyone?

How far off the ground do you want the signs? the posts come in 8 foot lengths, which you are not liekly to get pounded in more than 18" due to rocks and such, which leaves 6.5 feet at the top. Is that too tall, or could we get away with cutting them in half, thus producing 4 footers with about 2.5 feet out of the ground?

Dave

Good question, how far, could vary from high spots on hills to lower on the meadows...or maybe we should just keep it straight forward & half the poles length.

Yup I think we should half the poles...maybe keep 2 or 3 at full length

OK, I'll aim to get 30 full length posts, and you can cut them with a chain saw as you see fit. Got a big pencil sharpener?

Dave

Great thanks Dave, let’s ask Shawn our resident carpenter about the giant pencil sharpener…Shawn idea’s :idea: …chain saw perhaps?

What about the fastners Dave 90 carriage bolts/nuts etc is going to add up to some $$ :?: .

Sorry guys but I have to diagree with cutting the post in half. I would think the signs should be posted at 5'high. But if you want to cut them I can bring a chain saw. Also I will supply the plywood backing. Anyone with a battery powered drill should bring it along. I don't think carriage bolts will be too expensive as you need a very durable assembly to survive the climate.

Yea Shawn I think you make a good point about leaving the posts at full length. I was strictly thinking of how much “workâ€

Ok interesting Wes, are you definite about the alum nails? I could talk to forestry make sure that they don’t have any contradiction to that method.

Hey Shawn what would be a good second method (cheaper) than carriage bolts to mount the signs?

From what I understand, an aluminum nail will not cause the potential dangers that steel or ceramic ones will if a chain saw is eventually used on a tree. But I might have heard wrong on this.

Dave

All right I just emailed Mr. Ed Abels (Ministry of Forests) & asked if the might be any funds available :roll: to cover some of our sign costs…hardware etc. I also asked about attaching the signs to trees, if it is ok to do so & what method would the ministry approve of.

Here is the meat of the email I received this afternoon from Edward Abels.

Thanks for the photos and the update. This kind of information is very valuable to me when considering infrastructure needs and the possibility of entering into a maintenance agreement with your club. I intend on heading up to Lodestone sometime in mid August via the Lodestone Road near Coalmont. At that time I will assess the needs there, perhaps repair some infrastructure and work on a maintenance agreement with your club perhaps by the end of September so it is in place for next fiscal year. We will probabvly need to meet once to get documents signed etc.

Regarding the picnic table I am currently out of them but anticipate in getting some by September 15. Regarding trail rehab I do not suggest you do any mechanical work as this could be in contravention of forestry legislation if that was what you were thinking. I will let you know my thoughts oncw i get up to Lodestone.


I do not suggest using trees to post signs. I currently do not have any carriage bolts of that type and will certainly not get any by your time frame. May I suggest you use double headed nails so if I get the bolts for you at a later date the nails can be easily pulled and replaced with the bolts. I

like what you are doing up there regarding signage and site cleanup

:D Why not use large wood screws with suitable washers to attach the signs to the posts. That may be a little cheaper than carriage bolts. If everyone brings their portable drill we should have enough power to drill the screws in over the weekend. I also agree with Shawn about leaving the poles whole and cutting them if required. I used to be a farmer and I know a little about pounding posts. Too easy.
Are we meeting at Whatcom road at 5 pm. I guess that means I'm going as well.
Cheers
Derek
Van Isle Land Rover Network
'82 Airportable
8)

I was thinking screws as well, i hadn't thought about washers & that seems to be a good idea, cheaper...but we would definatly need power tools on site. I have one good battery & one part time for my cordless but i'll bring it anyway.

Oh yea & welcome to the trip Derek 8) . I think we'll revert to the schedule from the Recon Run in May.

By the sounds of the email from the forestry guy, sounds like they are doing us a big favorite by letting us maintain Whipsaw trail.

So everyone is leaving Friday night with the exception of me and Mark?

Really Kris, hmm. Ok, well I don't get that impression, but luckily, I have been on both sides of the correspondents so I see it more of an exchange of questions & answers.

So far it seems like you & Mark are the only Saturday arrivals, so same as last time we’ll leave Granite Camp at 10am - ish :) . Wow what time do you have to be on the road to get there in time?

around 6 am, and I finish work @ 10:30pm
not much sleep.
if were not there on time will catch up to you on the trail.
I guess will camp @ twin lakes.

or is this another short trip to Lodestone campsite and back.

Well 6am isn't as bad as i thought it might be, but finishing work @ 10:30 yea that's not much sleep...well sleep is for ametures :) . I would say that we would go through to twin lakes (is that Wells Lake?).

If you want to go with screws they should work fine. I will supply 100 #10 2"stainless screws with washers out of my stock. 100 stainless 3"Carrige bolts would cost $38.00 plus $10.00 for nuts and $6.00 for washers plus tax. If thats within budget let me know and I can pick them up. I don't think double head nails is a good idea. We should put these signs up so they don't require constant repair. Thats why I drive a Landrover , it keeps on going and going and going......

Well Shawn I have "Zero $" as far as any kind of budget for Whipsaw. I guess I could ask the 4WDABC. So we need about $50.00. I’ll contact the association, but if that goes no where I’ll chip in $10.00.

Paul,

Call me. I somehow lost your number last week. 604-309-1489.

Dave

Bad news for me, I have to work this weekend :cry: so I won’t be able to make the trip up. Nice being self employed most of the time, sometimes it reeks havoc on schedules.

I’ll pick-up the mounting hardware this week & work to get it anyone who may want to take it up. I was planning to pick-up the sign poles from Dave B on Friday, can anyone pick up the slack (poles) for me? :?: We decided to take up 12 poles & the hand pounder.

My apologizes for leaving the group this late in the game, can’t be helped money is good :shock: .

I will be leaving town friday evening some time. I don't mind picking up the poles and pounder from dave. I live close to New West as well so if you want to get me the hardware I can take that up. Now all I need is a PTO Landrover approved post pounder kit.

Hi Shawn,

Thanks for stepping forward with more time, I’ll let you know once I’ve got the hardware. Dave B. was going to meet me at the Whatcom Rd. highway exit with the poles, you guys can work out the details.
PTO kit is on its way. :lol:

Ok, so I count Shawn, Derek, Wes? & me for Friday departure, are we all meeting at 5pm at Whatcom rd? Then up to Coalmont.
Dave will meet us at 5pm to hand over the posts?

Kris & Mark are coming up Saturday morning, meeting us at Coalmont campsite.

Then we will procede up to Wells (Twin) Lakes for Saturday night, putting the signs up as we go.

Sorry to hear Paul, Dave, Rick cant make it this time. :cry:

Any others thinking of joining the group...Bill, Andrew, Phil etc....????

Looks like its going to be Hot, Hot, Hot... :D Bring the sunscreen!

Andy

Were thinking of leaving Friday night around 11 pm
and see how far we'll get.

Phil won't make it this time , he is of to Alberta.

Kris

Look out for Steve & Glenna friends of mine are still going. Blue Disco, Boarder to Boarder stickers. They plan to leave Coquitlam area Friday afternoon.

"Da Ja Hao" (How are you doing in Mandarin) !! Greeting from new member, Robin Li on Vancouver Island...

This Whipsaw run could be my very first expedition trip...catching first ferry on Saturday morning and meet you guys? Could somebody highlight me more details about this run?

TIA

Hi Robin Li, and welcome!

Please see my post regarding ferry times in the other thread.

Incidentally, I moved both of these threads to General Interst as there were many replies to both threads in both coming events and general interest.

Hopefully you can find more details by reading through the other posts, or PM Paul Cooper as he is the liaison for this trip.

Wish I could come too, but work plans have taken precidence this time.

Dave

Good news from Jarett at the 4WDABC informed me that the Association is going to cover the costs of our hardware purchase.
Thank you Jarett & 4WDABC :D .

Welcome Robin Li, Whipsaw should be a very exciting adventure for your 1st trip. Dave is absolutely right you will need to travel over on Friday. You could consider a hotel in Princeton (Best Western) Friday night, instead of late night camp set up. Then you will be within 45 minutes of of Saturday's (10am) starting point at Granite Creek campsite in Coalmont.

Since this is your first trip Robin, we should contact each other by way of private email, I’ll help make sure that you & your Rover are ready for Whipsaw.

Thank you Paul, PM sent...

:oI’m back on the trip, yipeee :lol: :lol:

Who can bring up a cordless drill & a 5/16ths drill bit? I’ll bring one old 12 volt & bit; I think if we had 2 or 3 more we wouldn’t run out of juice.

I’ll now be heading up around noon — 1pm & stopping in Princeton for dinner. Is that close to anyone else’s schedule?

I was planing on meeting at Whatcom road at 5:00 pm to get the posts from Dave and to travel up with anyone else that's there and Paul I have a drill that will do all the holes with no problem. Is that ok with you Dave?

Hi Guys,
Just returned from the Roverlanders meeting at Vanier Park, it was a beautiful evening watching the sun go down over English Bay whilst talking about LR's

Shawn, I will meet you at 5pm at Whatcom road, (and anyone else who is leaving at that time?) pick up the posts from Dave & then we can carry on to Coalmont after that.

I was talking to Kris & it made sense to us that everyone all meets at Lodestone Lake between 10am-1pm on Saturday morning?

Paul, Wes, Robin, Derek... what do you think?

Andy

See you at 5 pm, Whatcom Road.

Dave

Andy, I like your idea...I think I can make my way to Lodestone lake (40km from Princeton?) before 1pm by taking 5:15am ferry on Saturday morning...

Loadestone between 10am — 1pm? I don’t really get it? Not against it necessarily, I just don’t get it.

Ok after a cup of tea…I get it. It takes about 4hrs from Granite Creek to Lodestone (didn’t seem that long) so we will head out for Wells after lunch?

Sounds fine, let’s try to stay in close contact once we leave Lodestone, I don’t want Shawn to be stuck with most of the work because he has been kind enough to prep the signs & pick-up the posts etc from Dave B. and transport it all up to us.

We’ll have a brief drivers meeting at Granite Creek camp & another drivers meeting then at Lodestone.

Cheers

Hi Paul,

Lodestone Lake for Brunch / Lunch it is.

It just made sense as everyone is converging together on Saturday morning that we all have a centralized point to meet.
It sounds like we can all be there by 1pm, we then can leave as a group from Lodestone Lake.
Robin, do you feel you can find your way to Lodestone lake? Do you need directions or will you meet the others at Copper /Granite creek?

See you all on the trail...

Andy :D

Hi Andy,

I am off work about 4:30pm and going to do some last minute shopping afterward...if I could not make the ferry tonight, I will take 5:15 ferry tomorrow morning to catch you guys at Lodestone Lake (40 km west of Princeton?) ...or I will stay over at Best Western in Princeton tonight if I made the ferry today and meet you at Granite Creek 10am Saturday morning...(Between Coalmont and Princeton, right?)

How is the road condition between Princeton and Lodestone Lake, secondary road or offroad trail all the way...I recalled that Paul had warned me not travelling alone on the trails to catch up the group with stock RR...

See you soon...

Robin

I'm about to leave 2:45, i will be camping at Granite Creek tonight, i'll be waiting for friends to show up for the 10 am departure.

And don't forget to watch for active coal trucks from Coalmont to just below Lodestone. There is a very active mine up there, and trucks running 7 days a week that like to take up the entire road.

Dave

Great photos, especially the Mosswood Green RRC :wink:

Thank you for sharing, Wes...

Hi Wes,Grahem

Great photos :D

Sorry to hear about the blown hub. How many times did you have to tug him up?
Like you said before, now we can put faces to all the names.It was good to chat around the fire on Saturday night.
I bet Grahems girls were tired by the time he finally got home!

See you on the trails......

Andy

Wes's pictures are really great, I have put some photos up in our gallery from Derek, not as many as Wes but quite good nonetheless. I will put others up if they are sent to me.
Bill