The Rover-Landers of BC

I just read it is NOT goes to be the DC100 concept vehicle. It also seems that the Defender will soldier on for a while longer. :D

Even as a dealer we're only getting rumours, but the idea is 2015-2016 and that it will be made available to the North American market. It's meant to be positioned as the entry-level model for the brand, so there is potential that it may come with real coils and no air.

What I do know is that none of the prototypes you see are the finished product, and may in fact end up bearing no resemblance to the actual release. They plan to spend some time on it.

I hope they going to cancel it for good! It is not even worthy of carrying the name defender!!!!!!

skeena river rover wrote:I hope they going to cancel it for good! It is not even worthy of carrying the name defender!!!!!!

Let alone the green oval.

Yep you are absolutely right!

you shouldn't be so quick to shoot it down, it doesn't even exist yet! give it a chance, it may be the best option for a real offroad truck in the 21st century. We will have to wait and see.

That might be! But have you looked at it? It is uglier than s...t. I know some might like it but it is a hybrid between a mini cooper country man of some sort and any other suv.
Just 4x4 capabilities does not make it a land rover. And to replace the real defender that has been in service for almost 30 years with this toy car is just defender un worthy.. Land rover is heritage, a life style. I do not think the new defender will fit in those sentences.
But that is just my opinion. It does not even come close with a defender. If you would replace a car that has been is service for almost 30 years that is considered "The best 4x4" and a statement in the 4x4 industry you should see some of that back in the new defender.
Well i can not recognize anything that looks like a defender.
I do not like the new Range rover looks like a ford explorer! I do not like the range rover evoque. Looks like a Kia. I bet when that hit the market and i put a KIA logo on it nobody will notice it was a range rover.
The people at TATA do not have the feeling, essence what the brand land rover means!


That is just my opinion :D

skeena river rover wrote:That might be! But have you looked at it? It is uglier than s...t. I know some might like it but it is a hybrid between a mini cooper country man of some sort and any other suv.
Just 4x4 capabilities does not make it a land rover. And to replace the real defender that has been in service for almost 30 years with this toy car is just defender un worthy.. Land rover is heritage, a life style. I do not think the new defender will fit in those sentences.
But that is just my opinion. It does not even come close with a defender. If you would replace a car that has been is service for almost 30 years that is considered "The best 4x4" and a statement in the 4x4 industry you should see some of that back in the new defender.
Well i can not recognize anything that looks like a defender.
I do not like the new Range rover looks like a ford explorer! I do not like the range rover evoque. Looks like a Kia. I bet when that hit the market and i put a KIA logo on it nobody will notice it was a range rover.
The people at TATA do not have the feeling, essence what the brand land rover means!


That is just my opinion :D

I agree with most of your points. However, I do believe that there is a need for an update. I'm not saying turn it into some stupid Hyundai, but there is room for improvement. Keep the stuff that we all love about the current defender, and fix the stuff we don't. Like keep the simplicity. Solid axles, small simple diesel, manual transmission, coil springs, and large cargo compacity. But should touch up on stuff like passenger comfort. I love defenders, but they aren't exactly the best place to be for an extended period of time. Maybe fit a better heater, and improve driving characteristics (IE making it bearable at highway speeds). The proposed defender is not a worthy successor. Land Rover needs to keep making something useful, and stop ruining the trucks we love.

We have a similar discussion to this all the time on the jeep board I'm part of. What usually comes of it is that the days of solid axles are almost gone. There are very few who have kept with it this far, but even the remaining options will probably become IFS at minimum on the next redesign or two. Land Rover is not going to let themselves screw up a replacement that wears the name "defender". I always laughed off the new Landy's as off road capable until I had a chance to work with them and try out the technologies. Nobody can deny that the LR4/3's suspension is amazing at articulation and leveling the vehicle.... Even if most people switch them over to springs eventually. I'm seeing the progress that's being made with the vehicles from a "wheeler's" perspective behind the scenes, and althought nobody knows what the outcome will be I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt on making it worthy.

Whether anyone likes it or not, the new Range Rover is by far and hands down the single most capable off road vehicle in that size that someone can buy from factory here in 2013. The G Wagon even lacks in overall off road capability.

Another example of why I'm with the TATA direction is what happened with the Jaguar concept that they've been developing for 30 years. All of a sudden there was money being put into the company instead of taken out like what was going on with Ford.

I'm confident they'll impress.... Hopeful too as I represent them :)

With all do respect, I think you're on the wrong site. If you want to advertise, I'm sure you can take up ad space, but if you are trying to endorse your company, and drum up sales, please don't pull this crap here.

I'm not advertising.... No mention of where I work. I'm just giving a different perspective on the whole thing.... And one that most people wouldn't get unless they work for the company.

Would I love to see all companies offer a solid axle option for vehicles that are meant for off road? For sure I would. All I'm saying is that cars are built for the masses and unfortunately independent suspension is where everyone is moving to. Just as I put faith in Jeep to do the right thing if/when they end up making a Wrangler without solid axles (dread it), I'm sure LR will also.

Russ wrote: I'm confident they'll impress.... Hopeful too as I represent them :)

Yeah, real independent perspective.

I don't see why you have to get so nasty to Russ, we all love rovers, thats why we are on this site, whats wrong with saying he likes the new trucks? Do you really think he is trying to sell us a truck? We all know none of us are going to a dealer to buy a new truck. As for the new Defender I think you are all forgetting that it is a CONCEPT truck, not what will be produced. Why not be hopefull that it will be a truck worthy of the name instead of bashing it and TATA before they have even left the gate.

discojonny wrote:I don't see why you have to get so nasty to Russ, we all love rovers, thats why we are on this site, whats wrong with saying he likes the new trucks? Do you really think he is trying to sell us a truck? We all know none of us are going to a dealer to buy a new truck. As for the new Defender I think you are all forgetting that it is a CONCEPT truck, not what will be produced. Why not be hopefull that it will be a truck worthy of the name instead of bashing it and TATA before they have even left the gate.

I just can't really wrap my head around this. I meet Russ at the toy drive up at Harrison drive, and he seems like a good guy. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but I really can't help but feel that he's here for promotion. He doesn't own a Rover, he owns a Jeep. And he works for a dealership. I suppose we will have to wait and see what Tata decides to do, but I think we can all agree that I hope they don't use the DC100.

ALL...We at the Roverlanders all love our Land Rovers, but that does not mean we are an exclusive Club. We welcome anyone, and "any ride" that wants to join us for some camaraderie and fun off roading. We have members who drive Jeeps, Fords, Toyota's, etc.

Having a Defender as my daily driver I like many others decry the DC100 concept from Land Rover as an unsuitable replacement for our beloved Defenders, however saying that it is inevitable that this model (Defender) will eventually be replaced by something new.

I do have to agree with Russ that the most capable "out of the box" 4x4 on the market currently is the new Range Rover. Unfortunately most of us will never be able to afford a $100K+ vehicle to go bashing around in the bush with, and the vast majority of these vehicles will rarely...if ever be driven off-road.

I would love to see a Defender replacement that would satisfy and enhance what we already know and love...however I doubt that this will happen. The success of JLR under Tata has NOT been driven by Defender sales, rather the new Evoque, LR4, but mostly the Range Rover. The company would not have survived just selling "solid axle" Defenders.

As I work in manufacturing I have seen directly a fantastic product discontinued because the volumes just are not there to support it...you have to sell a lot of a particular product in order for it to be justifiable from a production aspect.

Russ has joined our club not because he works for JLR, rather because he enjoys the brand...and the people who purchase them, and what they do with them. Frankly having some "inside" information is a benefit to all of us LR owners and I welcome him and his opinions to our forum.

The Roverlanders Executive do watch the forum...and if we deem that it is not being used in it's intended manner we take action and rectify the situation.

Let's keep the dialogue civil, constructive, informative and most importantly fun.

Cheers and Ho Ho Ho,

Dave Fraser
VP Roverlanders

Back to the original topic, does anybody know if they plan to go unibody?

This article includes illustration of the 16 models Land Rover plans to produce...
LWB Defender, "baby" version & cabriolet. It's a few weeks old, might be new info out now...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/a ... tment.html

Nobody knows what is coming down the pipe until they launch it.

I believe they realized the err of their ways on the DC100 and although we still may see this model it will not be the Defender replacement...that is still under wraps by JLR...although that could change as well.

I have to chuckle at the discussions on all the boards regarding this issue...Change is inevitable and a foregone conclusion is that the Defender as we know it will never - ever - be sold here in N.America due to emissions, crash tests etc...

Having wheeled with all manners of LRovers, I must say that my next purchase will more than likely be either and LR3/4...fantastic off-road, comfortable, spacious, good heater, air conditioning, etc...and really the price on early LR3's is now closing in on $15K, makes this a viable choice for an off-roader. I would never take the LR3/4 up into places like the Canol Road (due to the mass of electrics) , however for local runs it sure would be more than suitable.

Saying that I am not getting rid of my 110...they will be burying me in it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I really can't wrap my head around independent suspension. I can defiantly see the benifit of road comfort, but really can't see it doing quite as well as a solid axle counterpart on the trails.

True, but I think Gerry McGovern has a pretty good idea of what will be launched. The models shown in the article are from his slide show....

e.prevost94 wrote:I really can't wrap my head around independent suspension. I can defiantly see the benifit of road comfort, but really can't see it doing quite as well as a solid axle counterpart on the trails.

I have seen first hand an LR3 off-road and it did everything that the solid axles did...with ease, comfort, air con, good heater etc...and all with the push of a button...however that is what scares me a little...all the electronics, and the potential repair costs of breaking something...or anything for that matter that needs fixing $$$$$ :shock:

Saying that I do love the simplicity of the solid axle trucks, and for real hard core off-roading they can't be beat...due to the simplicity of the entire package, ease of repair and lack of computers.

As far as the DC100 I recently read an article that states from JLR that the DC100 will NOT be the Defender replacement....If I can find out where I read this I will post it.

e.prevost94 wrote:I really can't wrap my head around independent suspension. I can defiantly see the benifit of road comfort, but really can't see it doing quite as well as a solid axle counterpart on the trails.

why do you feel independant suspension is a bad thing?

I am looking forward to see what Rover brings to the table, they have a good history of pioneering new technology and paving the way like they did with the start of the air suspension, it has evolved and other manufacturers have followed suit.

Dave_F wrote:Having wheeled with all manners of LRovers, I must say that my next purchase will more than likely be either and LR3/4...fantastic off-road, comfortable, spacious, good heater, air conditioning, etc...and really the price on early LR3's is now closing in on $15K, makes this a viable choice for an off-roader. I would never take the LR3/4 up into places like the Canol Road (due to the mass of electrics) , however for local runs it sure would be more than suitable.

Saying that I am not getting rid of my 110...they will be burying me in it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is a great point Dave, the LR3 is a very capable machine and I am also looking at getting into one as prices are becoming more resonable. as for driving it on the Canol, why not. in all honesty all the electronics and computers can be serviced or made to work in the field. how many years did it take you to get to know every nut and bolt like the back of your hand on your rover. a couple of months of research and reading can make you just as much of a pro in the electronics side, It may require a laptop and a software program but all circuits can be bypassed. change is good, technology is getting much better.

If you are stuck in your ways you will still be complaining about the air suspension on a range rover classic then maybe a vehicle that predates the 90's is just the thing for you.

I love the defender as it is, simple and archaic, but I also drive a simple diesel Iltis (Independand suspension). And archaic is just what the defender is compared to todays standards.

Even if they did keep the body and drivetrain style, it would be loaded to the max with electronics and gadgets to make it fit to todays standards and then there would still be people complaining about that change.

rezdiver wrote:

e.prevost94 wrote:I really can't wrap my head around independent suspension. I can defiantly see the benifit of road comfort, but really can't see it doing quite as well as a solid axle counterpart on the trails.

why do you feel independant suspension is a bad thing?

I am looking forward to see what Rover brings to the table, they have a good history of pioneering new technology and paving the way like they did with the start of the air suspension, it has evolved and other manufacturers have followed

I'm not necessarily saying that its bad outright. Onroad comfort is better, and considering most Rover owners don't take their Rovers to do what they're ment to do, this isn't a problem. I suppose I prefure the stuff that's provin itself time and time again. Independent suspension is pretty limited as far as modification goes. They're pretty hard to lift without losing downwards articulation. And as Dave mentioned, they are pretty complicated. The solid axle has always been the choice for simplicity. I don't think just because its new, it's better. It has its strong points, but I don't think I'm sold quite yet.

realistically you are not going to lift a capable offroad vehicle that is probably worth 100k out of the show room unless you have the money, and if you have the money to do a lift then you have the money to have some custom parts made to do it properly.

my Iltis was designed in the late 70's with independant suspension and it can keep up with most trucks offroad, so in its own way has proven the functionality of independant suspension. the LR3 can keep up with most offroad also and has proven its capability. we are not talking about a rock crawler but a capable offroad truck.

I have owned a few rovers and at no point did i feel that any of them required a lift whatsoever, they were all very capable. and the one discovery I owned that did have a lift I can honestly say I did not require the lift at any point and all it did was make getting in and out of the truck more difficult.

I agree that nobody is going to be lifting a $100k truck, but that's not really the point. If you want to get down some pretty serious trails, your much better off with solid axles. I can't say I've ever heard of anybody building a dedicated wheeler, and opting for a compleatly independent setup. If it came with IFS from the factory, that's almost always the first thing to be thrown in the scrap pile.

e.prevost94 wrote:I agree that nobody is going to be lifting a $100k truck, but that's not really the point. If you want to get down some pretty serious trails, your much better off with solid axles. I can't say I've ever heard of anybody building a dedicated wheeler, and opting for a compleatly independent setup. If it came with IFS from the factory, that's almost always the first thing to be thrown in the scrap pile.

But that is exactly the point, the new rover may come with IFS, and we are talking about the new rover. you would have to be pretty filthy rich to buy one and turn it into a dedicated wheeler. solid axle is great for a rock crawler but for an all around good 4x4 it is not a requirement.

Your absulutly right. 99% of them will never pass the city limit signs. It's just 10-15 years from now once everybody moves on, we're going to have to deal with the stuff they're pumping out today. I'm almost tempted to say that wont happen. We'll just have to hold onto the stuff we've got now, and keep them roadworthy. :roll:

Check out this post, if you want to see what these new LR4's can do.

do.http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/t ... ry-4-(LR4)

I myself am also coming around to the idea of owning a LR3 in the future. Just seems to make the most sense. You can haul lots of crap seats 7 and will go pretty much anywhere,great for camping and exploring.
Just wish we could get the diesel version over here : (

I wish i could say you are right! But i disagree!

I do have to agree with Russ that the most capable "out of the box" 4x4 on the market currently is the new Range Rover. Unfortunately most of us will never be able to afford a $100K+ vehicle to go bashing around in the bush with, and the vast majority of these vehicles will rarely...if ever be driven off-road.

The Toyota land cruiser is by far more superior than the range rover! Don't get me wrong the range rovers are nice etc but if you talk real 4x4 capabilities it does not even come close to the land cruiser! And that is a 100k truck to.

The other thing about defenders! We do not need a toy defender what we need is THE PUMA DEFENDER HERE IN NORTH AMERICA!
The Puma is quite, strong, luxurious and stylish. That is what we need! Not a toy car that looks like a KIA etc.
They should build the PUMA to North AMerican specs so it is allowed to drive it here legally. I bet they will sell tons of them!
I have driven the PUMA lots In Europe and it is BY FAR THE BEST defender ever build. Maybe not as a 4x4 hard core off road car but the whole package!
I understand that everybody has his own opinion or taste. But if you are replacing the defender it needs to be better not worse.

I didn't think I was being nasty and apologise if I was. I just wanted to be clear that I have to alterior motives in joining this site. I don't expect to sell from it, I honestly like the vehicles and wanted to be a part of the community. I do off road, and I'm a fan of the Rovers now that I've been further exposed to them.

By posting what I did, I only wanted to offer a perspective who has heard the intended direction from the horses mouth so-to-speak. I'm not shooting anyone's opinions down, as I wouldn't want to see the iconic Defender reduced to a family grocery-getter, but I'm just saying I have faith that they'll "do the right thing" by their loyal followers.

Again, apologise if I was offensive in my response. I just didn't want e-prevost94 (or anyone else) to think I was pulling any "crap".

It's acually pretty good to be able to hear from somebody who sells them, and knows the new stuff. Just out of courosity, why don't you have a Rover?

Because he knows better...he sells them :D :mrgreen: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Kidding Russ.... :wink:

e.prevost94 wrote:It's acually pretty good to be able to hear from somebody who sells them, and knows the new stuff. Just out of courosity, why don't you have a Rover?

Because I sort of just "fell" into the sport. I relocated to BC for the better skiing and found the Jeep as a trade in that had been really well cared for. Figured it was a relitively cheap vehicle that would get me where I needed to go in the winter. When I started working as a sales manager at a Chrysler store, someone approached me about the Jeep club's 2009 toy run. Went to that, someone convinced me to disconnect my front sway bar, we did the run to hale (it was only about 30 of us back then), and I was hooked on offroading.

I guess the short answer is that I was exposed to the sport through a Jeep club so here I am. That said, I've been looking at Disco II's but I'm having trouble accepting the fact that the engines "just leak" and there's nothing that can really be done about it.

Edit:
The other thing that holds me back now that I've thought further about it, is that the simplicity of solid axle setups and lack of electronics in the Jeep is nice for trail repairs (much like the Defenders). Problem is that a Defender can run $30,000 from what I've seen online and that's a bit much for me right now to spend on a toy.

If your looking for simplicity, you can't go wrong with a D1. But you do get to love their little quarks. My classic's ignition system likes to through a temper tantrum every now and then, and my driveway, and street is covered with oil. There is just something about a rover that you just don't get with anything else. You could best discribe it as a personality. :)

I agree with the above. I just splurged on a D1 for trailing. :alien: The D1 seems to be the cheapest way into Land Rovering right now and a lot more comfortable than most Defenders on road and not too far behind them offroad.

As for engine leaks, it is very clear that everyone in the club eventually takes out whatever engine the car came with and puts in a 300 TDI. :wink:

Hi Russ,

No worries man! I am not shooting you down etc. It is just nice to talk 4x4 and land rover stuff on this forum! We just have a different view of what would be a nice follow up for the defender. For most guy's that own a defender it is not just owning a car. For me it much more then that! And i think guy's that own a defender, they can share that feeling. So we are very passionate about this subject.




Cheers JEroen

I know I'm going to be slammed for this, but all the made for purpose vehicles that are engineered, not thrown together in some guys backyard, use ifs. I'm not into hummers ( of the four wheel type), but they are a formidable off road vehicle and engineered for military offroad use...

Turn on the flames :)

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you ( for the most part ) on the bit about hummers ( 4 wheel kind ;D ) . aside from the portal gears and wheels ( hutchinson ) they are made out of the most low bidder junk ever

the 6.5 diesel / 3/4 ton pickup drivetrain 100,000 and they're done

the AMC model 20 gear sets ( same as the weakest cj7 diff or a matador ) absolute junk

3/4 ton chevy ball joints top and bottom ( 4 little bolts and they're off )

the 28 spline CV joints and 19mm axle shafts...... snappy snap

HMMWV's are designed to be driven by 18 year olds and left behind in war zones

Hummers are for driving around looking for a wide enough parking spot

full floating solid axles are where it's at

I'm not sure about Hummers off road unless you're on a wide open prairie.

I was fortunate once at an auto show in the mid-90s to sample some 4x4s: the 'new' lwb Range Rover, the 'new' NAS D90 and a Hummer H1. The Hummer seemed to provide the comfort of the D90 at the price of the RRLWB. I also had trouble maneuvering the H1 along the street from the parking lot to the off road course due to its extreme width. When I see one of our Defenders or Discos squeeze between trees, rock or go through tank traps. There is no question of a Hummer would actually fitting on most of these trails. I believe the US forces have refrained from deploying Hummers to Europe because they just don't fit on the roads.

I'd have to say that the 6.5 in those hummers are pretty good. My buddy has a 6.5 turbo in his 2500, and it has 400,000 KM's on it, and runs like the day it was new. It is pretty bad for ball joints, but the axles seem pretty solid. Did you just have a bad experience with GM or something?

My buddy Rick had one and it was the biggest POS ( leaked oil bad and had some "eye" in the pump that kept going out )
that being said he has a Duramax now and he's happy with it

I actually have some surplus hummer portals and CV's at home and the CV's are tiny ( minivans are bigger )
it's just when people look to "off road IFS " they bring up the Hummer and while they look big and brawny there is a lot of junk in there

nothing wrong with 14 bolt gm axles though that I agree with, those are an upgrade in almost anything

BOlson wrote:My buddy Rick had one and it was the biggest POS ( leaked oil bad and had some "eye" in the pump that kept going out )
that being said he has a Duramax now and he's happy with it

I actually have some surplus hummer portals and CV's at home and the CV's are tiny ( minivans are bigger )
it's just when people look to "off road IFS " they bring up the Hummer and while they look big and brawny there is a lot of junk in there

nothing wrong with 14 bolt gm axles though that I agree with, those are an upgrade in almost anything

compared to the solid leak free landrover engines which never have headgasket or liner issues, bulletproof unbreakable rover axles and leakfree swivels, high mounted steering linkages, trouble free electronics. :P

OK...back to the DC100.

Just read the January Issue of Land Rover Monthly were it states from Gerry McGovern that the DC100 will NOT be the Defender replacement...so there you go...you can all relax at least until April where there is rumours that is when the New Defender replacement will be unveiled.

I get the mags electronically as it only costs $3.99 as opposed to $15.99 at the local magazine shop.

Well that's a relief. I'm sure they realize if they screw up, they'll lose a lot of their client base.

That's what I was trying to say above. They know this is a big deal and are trying really hard not to screw it up.

pfff now i can sleep again. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Quite the heated topic I see...

I'm a Land Rover guy through and through, I love my Series III 109 but I just bought a brand new 2012 Jeep Rubicon short wheel base. It is the ONLY new vehicle on the market with solid axles, lockers front and rear and an electronic sway bar disconnect. If the Defender was here I'd probably have bought that but other than the Jeep logo on the front the Rubicon is the closest thing to a Defender we can get (New). I mean how many other vehicles can you fold down the windshield, pull off the doors and the roof and hit the trails!

As mentioned by some others I do love the simplicity of my Rover when on the trail if I need to fix anything but purchasing a new truck I'm hoping (fingers crossed) that nothing electrical goes on the trail. Mechanical I can handle, electrical and I'm screwed. My Series III diesel doesn't need an alternator to run and that has saved me twice!!

This new "Defender" should be built in the traditional sense like the Wrangler has, Jeep has updated and modified the wrangler more often than LR has modified the Defender, but kept the core of a 4x4 utility vehicle. I think most people are worried about the new '"Defender" because of the radically different Evoque.

Yep you are right. THat is what it should be. I owned a unlimited sahara. Loved it, but it is not a defender so i sold it and got a 300 tdi. Sounds crazy to trade a 2009 for a 1997 defender. But i have no regrets! I love it and the ride is great. But i agree, if they would change the defender it should come closer like the wrangler. You can see it is a jeep from miles away and it is completely refined and much better then the old wrangler.

Russ wrote:I didn't think I was being nasty and apologise if I was. I just wanted to be clear that I have to alterior motives in joining this site. I don't expect to sell from it, I honestly like the vehicles and wanted to be a part of the community. I do off road, and I'm a fan of the Rovers now that I've been further exposed to them.

By posting what I did, I only wanted to offer a perspective who has heard the intended direction from the horses mouth so-to-speak. I'm not shooting anyone's opinions down, as I wouldn't want to see the iconic Defender reduced to a family grocery-getter, but I'm just saying I have faith that they'll "do the right thing" by their loyal followers.

Again, apologise if I was offensive in my response. I just didn't want e-prevost94 (or anyone else) to think I was pulling any "crap".

No appology needed we welcome your opinion the same as everyone else. I hope LR keep the spirit of the Defender alive in a new version I wish it was available in NA but we cn only hope. That all being said my 68 2II 109 is always going to be driven down the FSR's like it was built for. :lol: