The Rover-Landers of BC

Gasket kit arrived and it time to get started

Symptoms - in case someone else has the same


Although temps are normal I was losing coolant after driving for several hours.
About 1/2 inch loss after 2 or so hours of driving
Coolant loss appears to from the expansion bottle overflow line.
I verified this a bottle attached to the overflow line to capture any coolant from there.

Status
System holds pressure
While driving temps between 188 and 194 - 1600 to 2300 rpm 20 to 55 Mph
Idle at traffic light 197 to 201 depending on how much stop and go drops as soon as rpm increases
Will reach 201 after highway run at traffic light drops immediately once moving
Hoses remain soft at 194 -197 degs
System has pressure in the morning normal pfft noise
No air at bleed screw
Engine Warm up appears to be normal not excessively fast
No misfires or codes
No excessive smoke of tail pipe


1st up was building a shelter

https://i.imgur.com/59UGadZ.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/rZVY47A.jpg

Confirmation of the problem


https://i.imgur.com/xhXAALU.jpg



Martin if these images are too big let me know and I will resize them down.



Garage end is screwed in the house above the garage - just an extra repair job 

With that out of the way I drained the coolant - after 2.5 years it was time and I wanted to get rid of the dexcool anyway for simpler logistics it is hard to find dexcool in the back end of nowhere green is easy

I then flushed with water just to have a solid starting point no crud and good water flow out of the hoses

Then the fun part I started removing all the bits required to get the intake plenum off, I have secondary air so there are some extras.
The nuts that hold the SAI tubes on are pretty brutal to access, so a bit of reading indicated you can gently move the drivers side bracket to get clearance - and bonus you can which means I can deal with those once the heads are off and they are easy to access.

So far other than having to ask about the coil pack bolts it has been going well.

With luck tomorrow evening I can get the intake off, and possibly get started on the exhaust manifolds. I have done that passenger side and both Y pipe gaskets were done this year so I am not expecting any problems there.

More to follow

Pics are fine Richard. Best of luck with the head gaskets. Hope the block is ok.

Were doing the same job on the same truck (colour and all) good luck man. i too am done with Dexcool... it really is tough on plastics and gaskets.

@Discoslice we can commiserate and perhaps help each other out then - and of course because I am working a beautiful sunny day.

Good luck with yours

Commiserate for sure! Ive only had a couple snags so far. Otherwise I'm just waiting on parts...

@Discoslice which bolts are those ?

I have learned to hate secondary air plumbing but the intake Plenum is off - pictures and details tomorrow,
Lost a 8mm socket down near the coil packs have to find that too

So with much cursing of the SAI bracket on the passenger side and pipes at the rear I managed to get the intake plenum clear.

Ideally you want to remove the passenger side SAI bracket and pipes mine were not coming out. So some gentle upward pressure then left pressure got the bracket clear of the studs.
Then the intake was off and clear. Bolts would make so much more sense for those brackets.

The rest of the night was getting the battery out and and misc work in the engine bay.

I did discover a literal mouse/rats nest under the plenum

https://i.imgur.com/qnK5Ekx.jpg


Those pipes make getting the rear bolts out a real joy

https://i.imgur.com/nNSBjS4.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/1LyZiLh.jpg

Valve covers and exhaust manifolds are next

Two of them are from the bracket that holds the AC compressor and power steering pump to the head, and one of them is a rocker arm bolt. I share your sentiments towards SAI... looks like you’re makin good headway!

A good nights work although short

Got all the exhaust manifold bolts out without any drama
Removed the alternator, an annoying job that thing is really in there
Removed the Air condition compressor those bolts make the very scary I am going to break noise for about a turn. I took the approach of a little bit of a turn then went around to each of other bolts. Then tighten around the compressor and an another round of loosening finally they turned freely.


Then I rebuilt my shelter too much water pooling up there

Brackets and fuel rail hopefully lower intake tonight.

No engine pics but my shelter is nicer - I may have a garage addon by the time I am done at this rate


https://i.imgur.com/cEMKhxj.jpg

Hi Richard, sounds like you're going to be up to your elbows in it for a week or two :shock:

Steve Dillen is on the forum and he did his Disco 2 a year or so ago, so you may want to contact him with any questions or motivational inspiration. His forum user name is sdillen

http://roverlanders.bc.ca/roverforum/vi ... 396#p26396

If you get good at this you can likely do one a week for other members, as all Disco 2's seem to need doing after 150,000 kms (or sometimes less) :roll:

Good luck, keep us updated with photos and inspiration
Cheers
Andy

Thanks Andy, advantage to working from home I can start right after work for a few hours every night. So far is has been not bad, the week the heads are in the shop, I will be replacing a ton of rotten wiring loom it just crumbles when you touch it

Short night tonight finished at 7:30 rather than 8:30 :

• Cleared the all the pulleys
  Removed the Alt bracket
  Removed the Compressor bracket
  Removed the 2 cooling system pipes from the lower intake - they are a mess literally someone went to town with sealant
  Removed all the fuel injector wiring from the injectors
  Loosened several of the lower intake bolts man those were easy to turn 3/8's ratch and no real effort
  Realized I will have to remove the damm aluminum secondary air pipe to get the coil packs out easily and the one rubber hose does not want to release

I have the day off tomorrow and hope to have the heads off by the end of the day basically I have

• Remove the coil packs
  Clear the wiring harnesses
  Clear the remaining cooling system hoses on the right side
  Remove the fuel rail
  Remove the upper intake so far seem like the easiest thing
  remove the valve covers
  remove the rocker arms
  remove the heads
  remove SAI pipes from the head
  Heads to machine shop with luck

Seems doable in 12 hours

Any weirdness in there other than the fuel rail connector

Any recommendations for a valve grinding, seals will be done
Where to find head specs re decking (truing for us old timers) max limits etc

Valley gasket has seen better days

https://i.imgur.com/hYFwa2I.jpg

A wee bit of sealant in use

https://i.imgur.com/nxEwEbg.jpg

You can see the remains of wiring loom, some of that to replace too

https://i.imgur.com/VEgt8Of.jpg

I was able to leave my fuel rail and injectors intact on the plenum with no issue. I just slid the whole thing forward slightly to get at that fuel connection

My heads are both true and fairly clean so I’m opting out of a machine shop. Can’t help you much there.

I re-wrapped most of my engine bay harness too, learnt that some new wiring harness protector is Soy based. And can be a rather welcoming snack for vermin! Speak to some new Toyota owners on the coast and they’ll tell you their nightmares.

@Discoslice lovely soy based wire protection well I have had 1 rat in there so I will need to source something better

Fast update heads at the shop at 4:00 8:00 to 4:00 with about 1.5 hours of break/tool runs.
No drama getting bolts off etc, a bit of a twist in an SAI pipe.

The gasket fault -this is a wild ass guess appears to have been the left front. When I loosened then removed that lower bolt water started leaking out of the bolt hole, no other bolt exhibited this issue. Due the the gasket issue noted below it is impossible to tell for certain.

Looks like a spray gasket seal may have been used on the head gaskets - they came off wrecked - pics and full update to follow.

Well got the bad news today heads are done 15 thou out, which leaves me with 2 questions

I am assuming blocks do no warp - am I right there
And anyone have a set of 4.0/4.6 heads with secondary air or a set without and an ECU

I have the last days work and photo's coming and I did find the source of the gasket failure pictures to follow

Hi Richard,

Although I'm admittedly no expert on Disco engines 15 thou doesn't sound too bad, is it for sure scrapping the heads time?

Can the heads be skimmed and then maybe a thicker composite gasket?

Not sure about the block warping, that is a question others maybe can answer.

Cheers
Andy

That is bad news indeed but i certainly wouldn't give up on those heads just yet. The possibility to bend a block does exist, as a general statement. Highly unlikely here though. I would be curious to at least check their diagnosis. I will go back through the RAVE and see what the list for measurements, will try and contact the guy in Calgary that the rover shops use for machining and see what he says.

I have had several offers for heads so I think I am going to be good - it is surprisingly relaxing and satisfying do this work even with the hiccup of the heads.

My bet it was a torque related issue a couple of head bolts were way too easy to break free - 1/2 ratchet and no real force easy

Hope you can find some 4.0‘s and an ECU!

The final bits of disassembly a little of of order but here we are

Thursdays saga cue nordic music

I took the day off work to get the rest of work done to get the heads off

Remove the coil packs - I have mentioned how much SAI makes everything harder. 1st order of business was cleaning up the wiring and coolant pipes on the right hand side so I could remove the SAI aluminum pipes.
Once those were out of the way I discovered a breather line that was tucked downward beside the transmission - not ideal
Got the coil pack up top but while removing spark leads several ripped the ends off bad words were said. but I got it off and into the garage.

https://i.imgur.com/DLqL15W.jpg

4 out 8 ended up this way very annoying, it took pliers in the end to remove them

• Clear the wiring harnesses
  Clear the remaining cooling system hoses on the right side

These were very straight forward and just required suitable use of zip ties and a bit of thought but lots of repairs to do the wire wrap is pretty rotten.
Remove the fuel rail
Remove the lower intake so far seem like the easiest thing
Removing the bolts from the lower intake was very simple as all the inner bolts were just over hand tight, they were also covered in a white pasty substance almost like a grease, You can see it in the image below.
I decided to leave the fuel rail in place, but disconnecting from the fuel feed was dead simple.

Slide the lower intake forward a tad
Compress the silver metal tab push slightly forward then pull back
And done

https://i.imgur.com/BdDKRPF.jpg


Remove the valve covers - no drama here but I did have to go and buy a 12 point 8mm socket and the covers are some filthy. And the passenger gasket was starting to crack.
Picked up a set of NKG spark plugs while I was at it.

Remove the rocker arms once again zero drama, 3/8 drive ratchet and 14mm socket and off the came -with mandatory creak that sounds just like a bolt before it breaks.
A tip here start at one end give the bolts about a quarter turn, then do the other end followed by the center 2, repeat until they spin freely worked really well for me

Remove SAI pipes from the head
While I was out buying a 8mm 12 point socket I picked up a 27 mm wrench a cheap one.
I liberally hit the unions with penetrating oil the night before.
27 on the big nut and an 18 on the inside hard whack with the palm of my hand to get it moving 3 out of 4 not problem 1 twisted a bit - picture below.
What makes this such a pain is there is almost no room for the 18mm, pulling the exhaust manifold completely would give you more room but not much what you really need is a short open ended 18mm

https://i.imgur.com/ptjRnAS.jpg

Removing the heads - this was not hard all the bolts came free without issue. A couple of whacks with a rubber mallet freed the heads, BUT the gaskets were stuck to both the heads and block and it took a fair bit of pulling and wiggling to free the heads.

When loosing the bolts take your time it is only about a 20 minute job to get them out.

• Print the torque diagram from the the RAVE - you are going in reverse order outside to in
  16 mm socket deep and standard as well a a good breaker bar a 3 footer is a good size
  When 1st breaking the bolts loose 1.4 to 1/2 a turn only to start
  Then keep going in 1/2 to 3/4 turns following the reverse torque sequence until everything spins frees
  Then pull them out

I found some the inside ones in particular very easy to get turning as compared to the bolt on the end
As noted above you may need to give the head a whack or 2 with a rubber mallet to get moving strike the end and the intake side
While pulling out the bolts watch for water /AF leakage there should be none until you free the head enough to start lifting - I had water from the drivers front lower bolt as soon as I had 1 turn not a good sign


Fault diagnosis is difficult as the head gasket lost a lot of material during the head removal process and got pretty bent as well. However I did find a hairline crack all the way through the gasket from fire ring to the cool passage on the drivers side front cylinder.
This crack does not appear to damage from removal as it goes right through the underlying metal. But here are some images

Left side

https://i.imgur.com/q4L7hfy.jpg

right side

https://i.imgur.com/4o1GpKs.jpg

Gaskets -note what appears to be the start of combustion gas between the front two pistons

https://i.imgur.com/3gygPZw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/atPGOqP.jpg

Failure diagnosis

Cause was a damaged head gasket drivers side front cooling jacket. This damage to the head gasket was a crack in the metal portion of the gasket. See the images below

Overview :

https://i.imgur.com/O84a6D5.jpg

Detail :

https://i.imgur.com/gubkYr2.jpg

Found 2 sources for SAI heads so I will be good there

And just for reference the max the heads can be milled is 19 thou from new so 15 on an old head is pretty iffy

New heads into the machine shop 8:00 am today done by lunch, quote they were in excellent shape:

Valves good
Valve seals replaced as the come with the kit
They confirmed no more than 2 thou - the head decked for best mating

Looks like this long weekend I should be able to get her back together, with luck.

Well I have a plan :

Saturday

• Clean the block and bolt holes - this is going in to be a large part of the day. There are large chunks of gasket that need to be hit with gasket remover, and from my testing it is going to be painful and slow.
  Clean all the push rods while I wait for the gasket cleaner to work
  Misc cleaning of other bits
  Fix wiring loom that sits under the intakes and any other wiring issues
  Reconnect CPS - it did not click firmly when I installed the new one

Sunday

• Fit the heads
  Lower intake
  Rockers
  Alternator and PS/Air Con brackets
  Coil packs

Monday

• Everything else
  Top up rad with water only - it will get dumped after warm up
  Oil change - cheap oil it will be dumped after 100 miles max - good filter

Post start plan:

Oil change at 100 miles or a couple of hours of driving, make sure any left over contaminants are picked up and then removed.
Run water only during initial startup,same idea get rid of any left over contamination - I may do a light duty flush if the water looks "off"
Put AF back in

Drive the Disco everywhere to put a few hundred miles on it, and know she is a happy truck

Look forward to hearing about your completion! Just wrapped mine up, was a long battle but sooooooo worth it.

Well Saturday went to hell in a handbasket, 11:00 to 7:00 pm Clean gasket material from block, all but 1.5 hours of that time,many many bad words were used. Last hour was cleaning bolt holes, that at least was the expected time frame.
I also cleaned up some wiring loom while I waited for the Gasket cleaner to "work"

Used gasket removal spray
Hard plastic scrapers
Next to zero effect after 2 hours - ok I killed 3 scrapers

Then I did a bit of research and found a resin based scraper for gas stove tops and granite countertops popped down the hardware store and progress began ! it is called a Skraper Skraper
Before - Note carb clean works really well on piston heads

A few images

Block Before

https://i.imgur.com/OdRBAbm.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/4o1GpKs.jpg


Left side after 1.5 hours

https://i.imgur.com/hngY0SU.jpg

At 7:00 pm finished

https://i.imgur.com/DFjMsv9.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ieN7iED.jpg

Wiring loom fix was pretty easy

Low tack cloth wiring tape
Braided loom

MAF Sensor wire Before

https://i.imgur.com/QcoVkdA.jpg

Taped

https://i.imgur.com/1m1v2j8.jpg

Loom in place just needed zip ties on each end


https://i.imgur.com/TSKhFSP.jpg

Good work Richard, its all down hill from here .................

GRRRR 3 days and all I got done was get the heads on, right side is torqued down and good the left side is started, I can not finish that side. I need a torque wrench with a small head, extensions and wobbles do not work. One stupid bolt on the bottom of the head.

I did get some more bits degreased and de-varnished so things are proceeding.

I found a torque wrench that should work,with luck :)

Are you doing that with the block in the car? Ouch!

@swamjake yup found all kinds of muscles I have not used in years and they are all complaining :)

Success, kinda of found a "wobble" extension that worked. The problem is the bolt appears to have 70 Lbs of torque on it, it should not. After a ton of reading I am going to loosen it off and re-torque, it is the last one in the chain.

The extensions : note angle is exaggerated for th photo

https://i.imgur.com/mCOj31J.jpg

Everything in place :

https://i.imgur.com/C0EYABr.jpg

Looking down to bolt location

https://i.imgur.com/XwFcMYy.jpg

Done and finished my shoulder hurts but I have it sorted out.

After reading a lot on several hot rod forums I went with removing that nut & washer re-lubing and reseating. It just made me feel better.

It took 45 minutes start to finish and the booster heat guard bracket had to be removed, but I got it torqued correctly.

A quick double check on both heads torque in the am and I can get back in the assembly groove 

Now this looks a bit better

https://i.imgur.com/JUYbnht.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/XSGWC9M.jpg

Shiny!

The valley pan gasket is a pain to get set just right, it takes a lot of fiddling to seat correctly - in my case the left side was great the right side took some work,the right rear was great the right front was low a bit. If you do this read a lot and dry fit a few times.

I suspect a lot of the issues around leaks in this area are related to fitting issues.

https://i.imgur.com/ipbhIZx.jpg

Bolt cleaning took a lot of the day, turns out the old intake bolts had plumbers paste on them, that is just weird as the bolt do not enter the cooling jacket.
After 5 days of soaking in gasoline that stuff was still hard as rock. As luck would have it the only thread chasing kit to rent was out.

In the end I used my old warped head as a chase and used this process:

• hit the bolt with gasket remover spray
  Screw the bolt into the head
  Let sit for 15 minutes
  Pull it and rinse (hot water)
  Scrub with a bristle brush
  Clean grooves with an exacto knife and jewelers screwdriver - this stuff is hard
  Run into a second block hole with degreaser
  rinise again
  Run into the block in a 3rd hold dry
  Repeat if required

I generally had one soaking in gasket remover while I cleaned the next one.

After on top, before below

https://i.imgur.com/smjas63.jpg

State of the bolts overall

https://i.imgur.com/Dr1NgAP.jpg

Final job was replacing the throttle body heater, mine leaked and has been bypassed but as long as everything was apart, I figure replace it.
It is very easy:

• pull the old one
  Clean the mating surface,used 2000 grit sandpaper and steel bar
  Copper gasket spray on both sides of the gasket
  Set the gasket in place
  Put the manifold in place
  Bolt it down

https://i.imgur.com/XrrmzQj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/NX6KLVR.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GTKK2U6.jpg

Final job on the day was to install the SAI tubes into the Block, just some copper anti seize and 18 mm open end wrench. nice an easy with exhaust off

Almost there! I bypassed my throttle body heater... I warped three new ones before I just simply had enough.

Have had enough run time on mine to speak very highly of the NGK double platinum plugs I installed. Major improvement over the Bosch platinums that were in there.

@discoslice mine will likely stay bypassed too, I am going to route the cooling line directly back to the expansion tank. Then just block the heater ports. It will be a lot cleaner setup.

DiscoSlice wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:53 am I bypassed my throttle body heater... I warped three new ones before I just simply had enough.

There is a solution for you. Only one province to the right.
https://www.sportscarcentre.ca/MGM000010K?mid=948

Good to get this as well. https://www.sportscarcentre.ca/aluminiu ... -s?mid=948

red90 wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:56 am

DiscoSlice wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:53 am I bypassed my throttle body heater... I warped three new ones before I just simply had enough.

There is a solution for you. Only one province to the right.
https://www.sportscarcentre.ca/MGM000010K?mid=948

Good to get this as well. https://www.sportscarcentre.ca/aluminiu ... -s?mid=948

Whoa! Of all the mods and parts I’ve seen in my time I’ve never come across an upgraded throttle body heater. Those are rad. If I thought I needed that heater for any purpose at all I’d be all over that. Nice looking bleeder upgrade too. I’ve been meaning to get the one from carrs4x4 for a while now.

You need one. Your throttle will ice up without one.

Well as of today I will lots of time to get her sorted out just got laid off, sucks but the wife says I can mostly retire

I have been running a 4.0L D2 with no TBH for the last 5 years, no problem at all.

It is pretty rare to getting icing down here,up around Dawson Creek I would be way more concerned. I have a few ideas around a controllable bypass, I will post up if any comes of it

Or you could spent $75 and fix it properly forever.

Sorry to hear about the lay-off. That is not good news but if retirements on the table than enjoy the hell outta that!!

I ran without a heater in -30 Calgary weather for about 2 years and never once had an issue. Or at least not one that I noticed...

Hey Richard,

Sorry to hear about your "forced" retirement. Just means you'll have lots more time to keep the D2 running. :toothy7:

Regards,

Well solid days work today, I will have more of a write up but here is the end of day pic. Pretty sure I messed up the firing rider so that needs to be reviewed in the AM.

Got tired of whacking my knuckles on the lifting eye so it is a nice "see I am right here red" now

https://i.imgur.com/PmPZKu9.jpg

Long day today not much progress a lot of wiring to re-wrap.

Upper Intake manifold on and off 3 times and 1 more time to go

• Missed SAI pipes of all things
  Dropped a nut - it lodged in a bad place
  Dropped and lost an coil bracket bolt
  Noticed I had not checked off verify the valve covers are tight on my check list

Kind of frustrating day - taking a break Saturday back at it Sunday

Keep on plugging away Richard, almost there! I bet you really know your way around the engine bay now, it will pay off in the long run.

Cheers
Andy

Intake off , found I did not tighten the passenger side valve cover bolts correctly.

• got the coil packs bolted down that was 45 minutes of frustration I am really starting to hate SAI, sad thing is the lower bolts are easy the top 2 not so much
  Plug wires routed
  Various hoses etc connected
  AC compressor back on
  Throttle cables connected

Tomorrow after a dentist appt :

• review upper engine cable and hose runs
  Torque upper intake
  Torque A/C compressor bolts
  Torque Spark plugs and install cables
  Install secondary air
  Install exhaust
  Oil & filter change
  Install and double check all cooling system hoses
  Install alternator and battery
  Water and prestone flush into the cooling system
  And start with luck -I have a few ex job things to take care of start might be Tuesday

https://i.imgur.com/pk78a9M.png

Started her up this am

• Hooked her up to my brother jeep for battery
  Took some advice and turned her over 6 times with the fuel pump relay out to get some oil moving
  Fuel pump relay in 4 turns fired right up
  Idling about 750
  No weird noises
  small coolant leak from the expansion tank area, teaspoon or so on 40 minutes
  Cardboard underneath dry other that a couple of PS steer drops
  So far pretty happy

Congrats!!!!

Whatchya gonna do with all your spare time now? :bounce:

Martin worry for a couple of weeks, the Disco needs a good drive to blow 2 months residual moisture out of the exhaust system. I still have 2-3 cooling system flushes to do to get rid of the prestone flush and the cooling fan to swap mine has a crack starting.

The the wife said something about a large book of chores :)

Happy to hear it’s running!

@discoslice me too

Freed her from her prison, it will be a daily driver around town for the next few weeks

https://i.imgur.com/0wDhB2x.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/HE1FVUJ.jpg

Well all appears to be good, no long drives yet, but to Abbotsford and back and with a bunch of stops and no issues have cropped up.

Coolant level is stable
Temps with in norms - fan clutch might need to be replaced
Hums right along and no more exhaust leak

Found a bit of white mold on the rearmost seat belts - so she smells like vinegar right now. Cleaned all cloth surfaces and carpet, should have tossed a heater in the back once and while during the engine re-build

Good work Richard, I bet its good to be back on the road again!

Nothing wrong a hint of "Fish n chips" from the back seat!!

This is more of a little stuff that will drive you nuts post.

I now have about 160 miles on the Disco since I completed the head gasket work.  This is a mix of local driving, and 120 mile round trip that was a mix of hi way and city driving. The run up to Porteau Cove was a great 1st distance run.

The good :

Runs beautifully no issues there

The issues

• Temps are great in motion bounces between 188.6 and 194.2  (10 to 75 miles an hour).  At idle she peaks at 206 this is new since the head gaskets she used to peak at 201-202. I suspect a compromised radiator, with reduced flow.
  Codes of course there are codes 0441, 1171- 1174 These are most likely a damaged vacuum lines, the tiny ones, mine were not in great shape before and I repaired a crack during the head gasket job
  Misc loose connections, grounds and a positive wire to the battery
  Mode switch issues and lights for transmission (red led's) need to remove the center bezel and check the wiring. My bezel is pretty loose so it may get replaced
  I was worried about the exhaust but so far it seems to just be me

Solutions are all pretty easy

• Reverse flush the rad, possibly remove and CLR it as well - replace if required
  Replace the vacuum lines and purge switch
  Check all the grounds and electrical connections - I will be doing some changes in that area and will post a seperate thread
  Not sure yet but, lift the bezel and check the connections - I may have picked up a bit of corrosion.
  Deep breaths and be calm every new exhaust noise is not bad

I will update this as I go along