contemplating heresy

[bhoult]

I'm replacing the 3.5 in our 88 RRC with a good used 3.9 and have been having second thoughts about re-installing the EFI. The EFI worked fine for the most part before I removed the 3.5, but as I have been removing and refurbishing bits it appears to be fragile and complex. (the plastic connectors on the injectors are so old most broke when removing them)

I've only had one other EFI off-road truck in the past, and it was a 1989 Trooper that left me stranded for a day on a trail a tow truck would never be able to get too. I eventually lucked on to the failed fusible link, cut out a piece of wire from the e-brake light circuit to replace it and motored out. My point is, I don't want to be Dr. EFI, I just want have fun in my 26 year old truck. To that end I'm considering the alternative of retrofitting a carburetor/intake and electric fuel pump, along with a pertronix dizzy to simplify the beast.

My question is two-fold to this learned group; what carb set up has yielded success on the 3.9, and conversely if I stay with EFI - is there anyway to simplify the (14ux?)system by reducing components/failure points?

Thanks !

[red90]

I'm not sure if there really is a carb setup that will be more reliable than the EFI. All the ones I've been involved with on the Rover V8s have had neverending problems. Some people say they have good setups. You will need to make sure it is well tuned.

If I had a 14CUX truck, I would put together a Rovergauge system and carry a laptop. https://code.google.com/p/rovergauge/ This would make troubleshooting easy. Connectors are cheap and easy to source if you broke any. There is also a group that has reverse engineered the whole 14CUX code and it is possible to write new fuel maps, etc..

Myself, I would change to a system that I have full control over. This lets you troubleshoot anything and get the system tuned to the best possible point. For the Rover V8, I would go with one of the Magasquirt packages. http://www.megasquirt-v8.co.uk/ms_what_is_ms.php A bit of money, but you end up with simple, low cost sensors that are easy to source locally and the ability to troubleshoot anything and set it up to give optimal power and efficiency.

Or get a diesel...

[BOlson]

IMHO build what you want , if it were me I would bin the EFI ( and all the current and future problems ) and install an edelbrock manifold and off road performer carb.... ( yes I know I'm a heretic ) you shouldn't need to bring a scantool along when you are off road

MANIFOLD
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new ... r-v8.shtml

CARB
http://www.holley.com/0-90470.asp

a few tips on modifying a Holley for off road

http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/engin ... gallery/#1

[red90]

As I said, I'm sure it is possible to get an Edlebrock/Webber carb or a Holley working off road. My own experience is regular and common problems with steep angles and abnormal temperatures and no altitude compensation. The number of times I've seen a trip stop to fix a carb is many times more than stopping to fix an EFI system.

[bhoult]

Thanks for the replies so far! Both recommendations give me more to think about. My personal experience has favored carburation, but I don't spend any time over about 5000 ft and I don't run at severe angles for the most part. In a group sample you can always find folks that don't keep their fuel systems ready to rumble, regardless of which type it is. I've always thought fuel injection has many advantages, provided it's a quality setup. In the range of quality fuel injection systems, I think of my 0 fault Toyota systems (with over 300K miles) at one end of the spectrum, and what appears to be an archaic and, in my case, completely worn out, rover system at the other end of the spectrum.

It's a topic for serious thought, as going the carburetor route is going to run $1000 in parts plus quite a few hours in fitment/modification time. I guess it comes down to me figuring out how I want to spend my time, becoming a 14ux expert, or going down the comfortable path of retrofit. I really like the looks of that rover gauge set up. Just making the adapter cable sounds like it will make me smarter, or make me burn the carcass of my RRC in my front yard out of frustration. :?

[Rob]

I've had 3 RRCs from that era, 2 were the EFI and one had a carb conversion. I found that the carb version (edelbrock manifold and holly carb) ran fine, good power (sounded cool) but was a nasty pig on gas (yeah, worse than the EFI, around 10 to 12 mpg versus 15 to 18 on EFI). I off-roaded the carb and EFI trucks and didn't find much difference in performance (other than fuel consumption). I thought I preferred carbs but my more recent experience has led me to be more positive about the EFI systems and in the past 5 years I've had very little trouble with EFI on my rover V8s.

Just my 2cents (and at $1.38 per litre, that doesn't go far :o )

Cheers, Rob

[bhoult]

Thanks Rob. Even with bad just about everything, the EFI on the 3.5 returned 17 mpg on the way up and back to the NWC last fall. I used more coolant than gas with a blown head gasket (compression leak) on the way home :)

This RRC will likely only go about 3 miles per day on average - with some long trips throughout the year, so fuel mileage isn't my primary concern - my ability to fix it when it's broken is. I'm not completely against learning what I need to fix the EFI, and now that the systems have been around so long I'm finding a lot of info on them. The frustration factor is what I want to avoid, and having over 30 years of fiddling with carburation under my belt tilts my confidence in that direction.

Since it's not going to cost me anything to put the truck back together with the EFI, I'm tempted to do just that and see how it goes. I did source some new injector leads (I think I have 4 of the 8, and 4 of the original are probably serviceable). Anyway - we'll see how it goes. If it becomes unworkable in the shake out period, I can order the carb conversion parts and put them on in good time.

[bhoult]

Carburetor stock is climbing after reading this thread. :shock:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... 4CUX&mid=0

[jeepingpw]

My computer is on its last legs & won't let me post pics, so I will try to expain best I can.

my 1992 RRC is on propane with the stock EFI set up.

I am going to change that over to a Buick 215 4bbl intake to move my mixer on top of the manifold so I can hook back up my snorkle & get rid of all the EFI B.S.

The Buick manifold has a threaded bung to the lower left of the thermostat for a heater hose & a coolant hole below the thermostat for the second heater hose.

All pics of the Edelbrock intake I have seen only has the threaded hole & no hole under the thermostat?

Problem with the Buick thermostat housing is, it doesn't have the correct angle for the upper heater hose, nor a threaded bung for a sending unit .

But a thermostat housing from a Land Rover 101 has the correct angle & both the lower spud for the heater hose, & a threaded bung up top for the Temp sending unit (but not big enough for the huge Temp sending unit on the stock LR housing)

The stock LR thermostat housing won't work as it doesn't have the lower heater hose spud.
RPI has their own made thermostat housing that looks the same as the stock Land Rover one (with Temp sending unit bung) but with the lower heater hose spud.

The Buick manifold doesn't have a threaded bung on the top of the intake for the second temp sending unit (either does the Edelbrock), but I am just going to weld a threaded bung on the top.

Buick intake is Spread Bore.
I only paid $80.00 for the Buick intake compared to $300.00 for an Edelbrock.

[LandyAndy]

If you decide to go efi, ditch the 14CUX and fit Megasquirt with Ford EDIS coilpacks... huge LR V8 following in the UK and all parts are available from here :

http://www.megasquirt-v8.co.uk/index.php

Once you get into it, it's not that hard & there is loads of help here :

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showforum=36

Have fun !

PS... MS will also give you better fuel economy than the old Lucus efi or a carb, as well as more power..... win win :D

[StuartL]

If you are serious I think Alan Simpson up in Merritt has a manifold for the conversion.

Cheers,