When looking for the best snow chains for my Defender 110, what's in the not-to-do list? What's in the to-do list?
JD
Winter, Chains, Again
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red90
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On road or off road use?
For off road, the cheapest and traditional solution is ladder style with V-bars. These are robust, easy to mount, provide tons of traction and are cheap. They run in the $100 to $150 a pair range for our sizes. See Gregg catalog (http://www.greggdistributors.ca/catalogue.htm) page Q175 "Singles with cam tighteners".
The next choice is the ones with angled chains running to a center chain. These provide more lateral traction, a little less forward traction and a smoother ride. They also cost twice as much. See Gregg, page Q177 "Singles c/w rebar and cams". Both these are Tellesfsdal brand (http://www.tellefsdal.no/engelsk/index_engelsk.htm) and are a lot more heavy duty than a Land Rover :wink:
A lot of the guys in your neck of the woods are running RUD Grip V (http://www.rud.com/en-us/produkte/schne ... rip_v.html) which is the same idea except with a nice quick auto tensioning system instead of the cam locks.
Make sure whatever you use (if it is for off road) has "real" chains and some sort of tensioning system. Loose chains are not fun and broken ones are worse. Make sure you test fit them at home and remove any unneeded links.
For on road use, I'd look into a decent set of cable chains with a good tensioning system. I've never used chains on the road, so can't provide any more guidance.
One more point. I would suggest not using them on the front axle of a Rover unless the axle has proper strength upgrades. Chains provide incredible traction and the stock front axles are pretty weak. I guess that is true for some stock rear axles as well, so perhaps that should be looked at as well before heading down this route.
OK, one more point.... If you are using a larger than stock wheel size, be careful that you have enough clearance to the body. Chains are a lot stronger than a Land Rover's body.
For off road, the cheapest and traditional solution is ladder style with V-bars. These are robust, easy to mount, provide tons of traction and are cheap. They run in the $100 to $150 a pair range for our sizes. See Gregg catalog (http://www.greggdistributors.ca/catalogue.htm) page Q175 "Singles with cam tighteners".
The next choice is the ones with angled chains running to a center chain. These provide more lateral traction, a little less forward traction and a smoother ride. They also cost twice as much. See Gregg, page Q177 "Singles c/w rebar and cams". Both these are Tellesfsdal brand (http://www.tellefsdal.no/engelsk/index_engelsk.htm) and are a lot more heavy duty than a Land Rover :wink:
A lot of the guys in your neck of the woods are running RUD Grip V (http://www.rud.com/en-us/produkte/schne ... rip_v.html) which is the same idea except with a nice quick auto tensioning system instead of the cam locks.
Make sure whatever you use (if it is for off road) has "real" chains and some sort of tensioning system. Loose chains are not fun and broken ones are worse. Make sure you test fit them at home and remove any unneeded links.
For on road use, I'd look into a decent set of cable chains with a good tensioning system. I've never used chains on the road, so can't provide any more guidance.
One more point. I would suggest not using them on the front axle of a Rover unless the axle has proper strength upgrades. Chains provide incredible traction and the stock front axles are pretty weak. I guess that is true for some stock rear axles as well, so perhaps that should be looked at as well before heading down this route.
OK, one more point.... If you are using a larger than stock wheel size, be careful that you have enough clearance to the body. Chains are a lot stronger than a Land Rover's body.
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JD
Missing Link
John,
Thanks VERY much for that detailed reply. Whatever I buy will have to do on and off road - and I don't know which will come first this year. I've never used 'cam locks' before but know I don't want to use bungy cords at all.
You refer to weakness of the front axle when fitted with chains... would this be during street driving, off roading? Which are the weak parts that break? Is it OK off road but not on road? Is it OK diff- locked but not undiff-locked (or the other way round)?
I've got an old MOD thingy with Salisbury rear so back end should OK.
As for cable chains they give a nice smooth on road ride. They are just fine if there's a snow pack on that road, but getting mashed between pavement and tires isn't good for them. They crush and break. Then the flapping around inside the wheel well is an unpleasant experience.
JD
Thanks VERY much for that detailed reply. Whatever I buy will have to do on and off road - and I don't know which will come first this year. I've never used 'cam locks' before but know I don't want to use bungy cords at all.
You refer to weakness of the front axle when fitted with chains... would this be during street driving, off roading? Which are the weak parts that break? Is it OK off road but not on road? Is it OK diff- locked but not undiff-locked (or the other way round)?
I've got an old MOD thingy with Salisbury rear so back end should OK.
As for cable chains they give a nice smooth on road ride. They are just fine if there's a snow pack on that road, but getting mashed between pavement and tires isn't good for them. They crush and break. Then the flapping around inside the wheel well is an unpleasant experience.
JD
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red90
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Off road mainly as the torque available in low range is much higher. Really, there is little point to fitting chains to the front. IMO, never fit front chains only (unless it is a front wheel drive car). Use them on the rear or all four wheels. There is a big safety concern with front wheel fitment only. When going down a steep hill or braking hard, the rear has no traction and the vehicle becomes unstable and wants to swap ends. Chains on the rear only make a stable vehicle. I've never encountered problems steering with rear only chains and I do a lot of winter off roading in some very slippery conditions.You refer to weakness of the front axle when fitted with chains... would this be during street driving, off roading? Which are the weak parts that break? Is it OK off road but not on road? Is it OK diff- locked but not undiff-locked (or the other way round)?
As to the axle weakness, it depends on the vehicle... Early 90/110/130 front axles have weak differentials and inner halfshafts. Laters have weak everything..... You really don't want to be breaking a front axle in the winter at least around here.
So, if you must have one set for on and off road, you need to get the type that go continuously back and forth. Other designs are crazy rough on the road. I would personally avoid running chain type chains on uncovered pavement as it is really hard on the road surface.
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red90
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Re: Missing Link
Keep an eye on the drive members. They are made of swiss cheese and commonly strip their splines. Either keep a spare or two with you or get some better ones.JD wrote: I've got an old MOD thingy with Salisbury rear so back end should OK.
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JD
Cam(pbell) locks. Keeps'em oot.
John,
Ack. Haven't yet researched the bits and bytes of differentials. Can you be specific in the parts names about the 'drive members' you refer to in a Salisbury? ...or is that a part name that I just don't know?
JD
Ack. Haven't yet researched the bits and bytes of differentials. Can you be specific in the parts names about the 'drive members' you refer to in a Salisbury? ...or is that a part name that I just don't know?
JD
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red90
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The thing bolted to the hub on the outside which splines into the halfshaft. FTC5806 (drum axles), FTC859 (disc axles). Carrying a spare or two is cheap and easy. They wear out slowly, so inspecting them goes a long way to preventing a failure. North American terminology would be "hub", but I'm trying to stick with want Rover calls them as it gets a bit confusing.
I have seen people break stock Salisbury halfshafts as well, so it is something to consider as an upgrade depending on how hard you use it. They are a lot better than the later model swiss cheese shafts found in Discos.
I have seen people break stock Salisbury halfshafts as well, so it is something to consider as an upgrade depending on how hard you use it. They are a lot better than the later model swiss cheese shafts found in Discos.
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DaveB
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The drive members John is referring to are really the "end caps" on the axles.Yes, definitely swiss cheese. However, that being said, its much easier to replace a cap on the end of your axle than it is to replace something in the guts of the differential. So some believe this is a planned weakpoint to save the insides. You should definitely carry a couple of extra stock ones with you at all times, but unless you've beefed up the insides I wouldn't encourage you replacing the stock drive members with heavy duty ones cuz then if something breaks it will be your axles themselves, or your differentials, either of which is much harder to fix than just replacing the end cap.
As far as chain's go, I use the RUDs but have needed them on-road only once. They don't have quite the grip of the v-chains, but they are a bit smoother on road, and definitely a few steps up from cable chains. And they are so easy to mount...
cheers, Dave
As far as chain's go, I use the RUDs but have needed them on-road only once. They don't have quite the grip of the v-chains, but they are a bit smoother on road, and definitely a few steps up from cable chains. And they are so easy to mount...
cheers, Dave
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red90
- Defender of the World
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Part #15, "Driving Member"
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/Re ... mber-1.jpg
The only downside of letting the stock ones wear is that it does damage the splines on the halfshafts.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/Re ... mber-1.jpg
The only downside of letting the stock ones wear is that it does damage the splines on the halfshafts.
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seapotato
my input on chains...fwiw...
Most of the times you really wish you had them is on road, those 2 weeks a year we get that slippery mucky stuff that leaves you constanly on the lookout for morons flying through intersections...
( people on the prairies laugh at us when towns shut down after 3 inches of snow, but the thing is, our snow is slippery, and we have hills.... :lol: )
So if you get a set that works well ON road, they'll be an improvement off road, which I think is a better compromise that great off road and mediocre on...
( I think that made sense.... :lol: )
Off road there's usually options, winch, comealong, shovel, chunks of broom under the tires.... and there's not usually a rush, no ones racing up behind you to hurry you down the road.
as long as they're heavy duty, and not those little 3/16 (or smaller) cable chains that crappy tire sells.
Most of the times you really wish you had them is on road, those 2 weeks a year we get that slippery mucky stuff that leaves you constanly on the lookout for morons flying through intersections...
( people on the prairies laugh at us when towns shut down after 3 inches of snow, but the thing is, our snow is slippery, and we have hills.... :lol: )
So if you get a set that works well ON road, they'll be an improvement off road, which I think is a better compromise that great off road and mediocre on...
( I think that made sense.... :lol: )
Off road there's usually options, winch, comealong, shovel, chunks of broom under the tires.... and there's not usually a rush, no ones racing up behind you to hurry you down the road.
as long as they're heavy duty, and not those little 3/16 (or smaller) cable chains that crappy tire sells.
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red90
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This post might be of interest. http://www.alrom.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=32
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rick.m
drive members
there is one thing to consider about drive members. The stock rover ones are soft. with a rockwell of 45 i have been told. any one made harder LIKE THE ONES from . great basins rovers. Or from Maxi DRIVE ARE MUCH harder. like up around 70 rockwell. it will take a lot of the slop out of any axle if you upgrade the drive members. on my 16 inch wheels from front to rear movement it was almost 11 inches of wheel movement. with the MAXI DRIVE ONES that all stopped. and it was not in the shafts on the salsbury rear axle as i had to drive the members on with a mallet..
just as an aside i have a pair of chains for a 235 85 r 16,wheel that i will let go, still in the bag. these are the RUDDS. we got via PETE at the beginning of the year. i will only ever use i pair, on the rear. so call or let me know . rick.mellenger 604-30-1877.
just as an aside i have a pair of chains for a 235 85 r 16,wheel that i will let go, still in the bag. these are the RUDDS. we got via PETE at the beginning of the year. i will only ever use i pair, on the rear. so call or let me know . rick.mellenger 604-30-1877.
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JD
Chain Gang
Hey everyone! Thanks for all the replies and info. John I watched that video with interest. Purchased a set of link chains with camlocks today .. but sorry Rick .. did so before I came home and saw your post. I don't anticipate using the chains often or perhaps at all but have never owned a vehicle that I didn't carry some type in the boot. Felt that if I got excited and into the back country perhaps cable chains might be a bit light for non pavement driving. Some of your replies should get conglomerated and put into the Tech Article section of this site.
Cheers
JD
Cheers
JD